Date: Fri Apr 10 1992 17:36:24 From: Ali To: Phil Hansford Subj: M_class: Magick Class Echo Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- The echo originates here, and I moderate it. It is based upon PH> the 'course' I wrote, MAGICK.ARC. You would need that file. PH> I do intend to continue with the class if there is enough PH> interest in it. I, too, am interested! Where are you, Phil? :) --- Maximus 2.01wb OK, folks, the Online Magick Class is now underway! If you are serious about this class, you will need a copy of my written course, Magick.Arc. This class will be based on that file, but I hope we can cover addtional material including chaos magick and some recent research I have been conducting. If you don't have the file Magick.Arc, you can probably find it on the board where you are accessing this echo. And it is available on Mysteria. I will try to conduct this online class in an informal 'seminar' format where everyone will have a chance to discuss the topics. With this in mind, I'll ask everyone to 'check in' and to answer the question 'What is magick?' (for you, in your own words, if possible). And, 'Why should you study it?' (There, that ought to get a discussion going for a while, grin.) Magick, for me, is another of the psychic arts, but one which is less certain even than the others. I consider it an art, rather than a science, because the "rules" for magick change from person to person. Each person must find, by trial and error, what works for them. Yes, there is a general framework from which to start, but from there it's anybody's guess. However, providing you can suspend disbelief, *anyone* can DO magick! I regard a spell as a stone that is cast into the pond of "reality," causing ripples and waves to form and changing the pond just enough for the desired effect to come into existence. Why should *I* study it? Or why should *people* in general study it? I'm going to assume the former. For me, magick is a tool in my religion with which I can change myself and grow spiritually. Of course the fact that it can also be used in the mundane world to help when mundane action can't doesn't hurt matters any! "An it harm none..." -=> Quoting Phil Hansford to All <=- PH> With this in mind, I'll ask everyone to 'check in' and to answer the PH> question 'What is magick?' (for you, in your own words, if possible). PH> And, 'Why should you study it?' PH> PH> (There, that ought to get a discussion going for a while, grin.) Magick is a way to experience reality outside a reductionist framework. If, by doing magick, I manipulate the world differently than I do now, I can achieve achieve a deeper level of understanding of the world and the way I interact with it. --- Blue Wave/Max v2.05 [NR] * Origin: *Northern Lights* Citrus Hts CA *V32* (916)729-0304 (1:203/444.0) From: Phil Hansford To: John Shaman Subj: Magick Class Starts Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- Thank you for an interesting response. JS> For me, magick is a JS> tool in my religion with JS> which I can change myself and grow spiritually. Of JS> course the fact that JS> it can also be used in the mundane world to help when mundane action JS> can't doesn't hurt matters any! "An it harm none..." While magick may be used in wicca, I am not wicca, and the thrust of this course will be from a non-wiccan perspective. I hope that is not a problem. //Phil// --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (1:102/943) Date: Tue Jun 09 1992 14:23:00 From: Phil Hansford To: Eric Levinson Subj: Re: Magick Class Starts Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- EL> Magick is a way to experience reality outside a EL> reductionist framework. EL> If, by doing magick, I manipulate the world EL> differently than I do now, Ah, but do you really manipulate the world or does it manipulate you? (grin) Sorry, I just couldn't resist this play on words...You raise some very good points in your post. I am not certain how much of the 'world' is 'real' any more, nor if it 'really' matters. //Phil// --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (1:102/943) Date: Wed Jun 10 1992 14:10:02 From: Eric Levinson To: Phil Hansford Subj: Re: Magick Class Starts Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- -=> Quoting Phil Hansford to Eric Levinson <=- PH> Ah, but do you really manipulate the world or does it manipulate you? PH> (grin) In many ways it's the same thing. PH> I am not certain how much of the 'world' is 'real' any more, PH> nor if it 'really' matters. I hope it stays "real" enough for us to find the next step. (ephemeral grin) On a less esoteric note (if not more real), {sorry, I'll stop} Northern Lights is scheduled to shut down on June 20. Where else can I pick up the echo. ... What part of no did you not understand --- Blue Wave/Max v2.05 [NR] * Origin: *Northern Lights* Citrus Hts CA *V32* (916)729-0304 (1:203/444.0) Date: Thu Jun 11 1992 20:39:26 From: Phil Hansford To: Eric Levinson Subj: Re: Magick Class Starts Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- PH> I am not certain how much of the 'world' is 'real' any more, PH> nor if it 'really' matters. EL> EL> I hope it stays "real" enough for us to find the next step. EL> (ephemeral grin) As soon as we get a few more 'real' answers from 'real' people. EL> Northern Lights is scheduled to shut down on June 20. Where else can EL> I pick up the echo. sorry to hear that. This echo is carried by about 7 boards, including, of course, Mysteria. But the closest one to you (if you are in the Citrus Heights area) is Altered States in Stockton, Calif...209-466-2604. //Phil// --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (1:102/943) Date: Fri Jun 12 1992 00:42:00 From: Taliesin To: Phil Hansford Subj: Magick Class Starts Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- PH>With this in mind, I'll ask everyone to 'check in' and to answer the PH>question 'What is magick?' (for you, in your own words, if possible). PH>And, 'Why should you study it?' Interesting that I should come across this posting today...! I came to the conclusion today that life is not a mystery to be solved, nor a battle to be won, but rather a Game to be played. Hence, it behooves one to know the Rules of the Game, so that one has more options and thereby can have more fun in the process! Somebody before me said that "Any smoothly functioning technology will have the appearance of magic." Someplace else I read a definition of magick being the study of the natural forces of the Universe (and then some, no doubt), their nature and their uses. Pretty well works for me. Now I gotta go play "catch-up" and get the Magick.Arc file....! --Tal * SLMR 2.0 #2266 * If your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt. --- SuperQWK 1.16 (Eval) * Origin: The Sacred Grove * PODS * DharmaNet * Seattle, WA (1:343/56) Date: Thu Jun 11 1992 11:14:22 From: Darren Hanson To: Phil Hansford Subj: Re: MAGICK CLASS STARTS Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- Yes, I'm seriously interested in learning what you have to teach me about magik as you understand it. As to what "Magik" is to me, it is using the power of my mind and the force of my will with the assistance of powers greater than myself to make a concious change in the nature of reality. To wit, casting a spell to make a job become available, using candles to atract love, empowering talismans to provide protection from physical and psychic harm, etc. Studying magik is important because of the inherent dangers of attempting to use magik without full knowledge of what we're doing and thus haveing unwanted side effects or sabotaging our own work. Answer enough? Brightest Blessings Darren Hanson * Origin: TahutiNet - Baphomet Lodge OTO, Anaheim CA (1:103/175) Date: Fri Jun 12 1992 15:37:46 From: Phil Hansford To: Taliesin Subj: Magick Class Starts Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- T> I came to the conclusion today that life is not a mystery to be solved, T> nor a battle to be won, but rather a Game to be played. How very zen. T> Someplace else I read a definition of T> magick being the study of the natural forces of the Universe (and then T> some, no doubt), their nature and their uses. T> Pretty well works for me. The problem with that is that when one places the universe in a 'system' one places limits on it. Your second comment contradicts your first one. //Phil// --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (1:102/943) ate: Fri Jun 12 1992 15:42:18 rom: Phil Hansford To: Darren Hanson Subj: Re: MAGICK CLASS STARTS Magick Class ------------------------------- DH> Yes, I'm seriously interested in learning what you DH> have to teach me about magik as you understand it. Great! Welcome to the class. DH> As to what "Magik" is to me, it is using the power DH> of my mind and the force of my will with the DH> assistance of powers greater than myself to make a DH> concious change in the nature of reality. To wit, DH> casting a spell to make a job become available, DH> using candles to atract love, empowering talismans DH> to provide protection from physical and psychic DH> harm, etc. You are talking about 'mundane magick' here...Don't overlook the possibilities in magick for spiritual growth also.. //Phil// --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (1:102/943) Date: Tue Jun 16 1992 22:39:18 From: Frater Ehubi To: Phil Hansford Subj: Re: MAGICK CLASS STARTS Magick Class ------------------------------- 93, Phil and all... I find it hard to improve on "Magick is the art and science of causing change in conformity with Will." This is the widest possible definition, intentionally encompassing all Willed actions, including making dinner or publishing a book, as well as invoking Gods and so forth. The technical approach involved in ceremonial Magick is only a small part of the total magickal picture. Magick is worth studying because union with God is our purpose in the created world, and Magick provides tools to this end. 93, Frater Ehubi (sysop at TahutiNet) --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: TahutiNet - Baphomet Lodge OTO, Anaheim CA (1:103/175) Date: Mon Jun 15 1992 06:15:14 From: Michelle Hass To: Phil Hansford Subj: What Magick Is Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- 93 Phil... Yup, here I am finally chiming in. My name is Michelle Hass, and I have been studying magick in one form or another since December, 1975. I am involved in the establishment of a new order, Collegium Mystae Telestarion, which seeks to bring magick all the way into the New Aeon by discarding the old hierarchical structures in favor of a horizontal, leader- less, "gradeless" (actually there are two "statuses" for a member of the order -- Probationer and Initiate.) group which seeks to "reinvent" magick, rather than carry on outmoded traditional approaches. My motto in CMT is Hereticus Laetans, which means "The Joyous Heretic." This is what I aspire to: being a Joyous Heretic in rebellion against the joyless orthodoxies of the world at large. What is magick? I think that Dr. Christopher Hyatt, one of the most distinguished magickal minds that are in current incarnation, summed the subject up well when he defined magick as "Brain Change Willed." To restate in my own words, magick is "The art, practiced with the attitude and technique of science, of Changing your Mind." Magick is an art, first and foremost. It is an art like Medicine remains an art...there is so much we still do not know about magick just as Medicine still has so much to learn about the human body and its largely mysterious functions. It is also an art in the same sense that music, literature, poetry, painting, filmmaking and certain types of computer programming, to name but a few, is art. There is a definite component of Aesthetic to magick, and it cannot be reduced to objective criteria. Magick is subjective, affecting everyone according to their own indi- vidual neural nets. To be truly successful, magick needs to be practiced not with the attitude and (lack of) technique of religion, but with the analytic attitude, suspension of judgement, detachment and attention to recording all the parameters of a given experiment of a scientist. This was the most important gift that (and for Goddess sake don't be scared off by his name!) Aleister Crowley and his heir Dr. Israel Regardie gave to magick. For too many centuries magick was practiced with all the credulity and wide-eyed reverence of a devotee of a religion. Crowley's triumph was to apply the scientific method to magickal work. By paying attention to everything that goes into a given magickal experiment, and recording it all in a journal, you wind up with (not always, but a lot of the time anyway) reproduceable results. You are able to analyze the things that work and the things that don't work. The work itself is that of Changing your Mind. When embarking on the magickal Quest, you are in essence CHANGING THE SOFT- WARE that your hardware (your brain) executes. That's not an altogether strange thing...societal and other influences do this sort of conditioning to you from almost the first moment you emerge from the womb to the hour of your death. What the magickian does is take over the programming from the outside influences, and by connecting with Deeper aspects of Self work out the software that is best suited for the hardware s/he is equipped with. This work of Willed Brain Change is also called "finding and doing your True Will." That's what we're trying to do here. First off, you acknowledge that you are now taking respon- sibility for self-programming. Then you figure out what the program is going to do. Then the long process of hacking out the code begins. And that's the process we're going to discuss here, right Bro Phil? (Debug my statement as thou Wilt...) Beauty and Balance, Will and Love Hereticus Laetans 703, Companion, C.'.M.'.T.'. ... OFFLINE 1.35 * Coming soon: C.'.M.'.T.'..... --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (1:102/943) Phil? (Debug my statement as thou Wilt...) Beauty and Balance, Will and Love Hereticus Laetans 703, Companion, C.'.M.'.T.'. .. OFFLINE 1.35 * Coming soon: C.'.M.'.T.'..... Date: Thu Jun 18 1992 21:51:26 From: Phil Hansford To: Frater Ehubi Subj: Re: MAGICK CLASS STARTS Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- FE> I find it hard to improve on "Magick is the art FE> and science of causing change in conformity with FE> Will." This is the widest possible definition, FE> intentionally encompassing all Willed actions, FE> including making dinner or publishing a book, as FE> well as invoking Gods and so forth. Hello, and welcome to the online magick class. Yes, your deffinition is certainly comprehensive. FE> The technical FE> approach involved in ceremonial Magick is only a FE> small part of the total magickal picture. Yes, I agree. In fact, the ceremonial aspects of magick will be downplayed in this course (they certainly were downplayed in the written material). We will be investigating principles and philosophies here more than rituals or ceremonies. FE> Magick is worth studying because union with God is our purpose in FE> the created world, and Magick provides tools to FE> this end. I wouldn't have put it in exactly those terms, but I think we agree. //Phil// --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (1:102/943) Date: Thu Jun 18 1992 22:19:04 From: Phil Hansford To: Michelle Hass Subj: What Magick Is Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- MH> 93 Phil... MH> Yup, here I am finally chiming in. Hello! Welcome to the class. MH> What is magick? I think that Dr. Christopher Hyatt, one of the MH> most distinguished magickal minds that are in current MH> incarnation, MH> summed the subject up well when he defined magick as "Brain MH> Change MH> Willed." To restate in my own words, magick is "The art, MH> practiced with the attitude and technique of science, of Changing MH> your Mind." Hmmm...An interesting answer. A psychological approach. MH> To be truly successful, magick needs to be practiced not with MH> the attitude and (lack of) technique of religion, but with the MH> analytic attitude, suspension of judgement, detachment and MH> attention to recording all the parameters of a given experiment MH> of a scientist. A very good approach...If you have the dedication to keep a written log of all magical experiments, that is very helpful. I have tried this myself, but usually wind up compromising by just taking a few notes once in a while (smile). MH> This was the most important gift that (and MH> for Goddess sake Are you are attaching a pantheon here?...Better for a 'suspension of judgement' perhaps (grin). MH> don't be scared off by his name!) Aleister MH> Crowley Shudder, shriek, not to mention Austin Spare. MH> and his heir Dr. Israel Regardie Yes, him too. MH> This work of Willed Brain Change is also called "finding and MH> doing your True Will." That's what we're trying to do here. MH> First off, you acknowledge that you are now taking respon- MH> sibility for self-programming. Then you figure out what MH> the program is going to do. Then the long process of hacking MH> out the code begins. MH> And that's the process we're going to discuss here, right MH> Bro Phil? Right. And a good enough reason to study magick, eh Michelle? //Phil// --- msgedsq 2.0.5 * Origin: nada (1:102/943) Date: Sat Jun 20 1992 21:12:56 From: Dan Berger To: Phil Hansford Subj: What is Magick? Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- Well, SOMEBODY has to be late for class, don't they? Too many great answers to the first question, so I'll try for something short: Magick is using Body, Mind, and Spirit to manifest changes in perceived reality. --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (93:9700/0) Date: Wed Jun 24 1992 15:48:36 From: Phil Hansford To: Dan Berger Subj: What is Magick? Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- DB> Well, SOMEBODY has to be late for class, don't DB> they? Too many great answers to the first question, DB> so I'll try for something short: DB> Magick is using Body, Mind, and Spirit to manifest DB> changes in perceived reality. (grin) While I wouldn't really call you late, I think I will 'close the door' at this point...If anyone else wants to join the class they'll have to play catch up as best they can. With regard to your answer, yes there have been some very good answers so far. Your answer is an interesting one. I'm not sure what it means, but it sounds pretty good (grin). //Phil// --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (93:9700/0) Date: Wed Jun 24 1992 15:52:16 From: Phil Hansford To: All Subj: Psychic Phenomena Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- First of all, let me thank everyone who has been participating by answering the first two questions here. Your answers were all great. I think it is important to really think about what we are saying here though. I think even the stock deffinition of magick from Aleister Crowley maybe falls short of *meaning*. What good is a deffinition of magick if we don't understand it? There are some real problems here with semantics, which we'll get into a bit later. But for now, let's consider what may be the root or essence of magick...Psychic phenomena. Specifically, what is psychic phenomena? Is it real? Can you illustrate this with a personal example of psychic phenomena *you* have experienced? //Phil// --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (93:9700/0) Date: Fri Jun 26 1992 06:26:18 From: Michelle Hass To: Phil Hansford Subj: Psychic Phenomena Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- On 06-24-92 Phil Hansford wrote to All... 93 Phil! PH> Specifically, what is psychic phenomena? It is the display of mental abilities that A.) we usually don't use; B.) we are starting to see pop up in people more and more, possibly as a symptom of an evolutionary leap in the species Homo sapiens sapiens; C.) we haven't quite understood yet, but with application of Quantum Theory to Psychology and Brain Physiology we are beginning to get inklings about what might be going on. PH> Is it real? In short...hell yes! PH> Can you illustrate this with a personal example of psychic phenomena PH> *you* have experienced? A good example would be the "Radar" I have with people like my husband Richie and my friend Greg. It is most powerful with Greg, strangely enough, because Greg is a bit more in active transmit/receive mode than Richie is. (A skeptic but a very good Control Group for any given experiment of mine.) I can instantly, regardless of location (although there seems to be *some* drop off for distant locations like San Fran and beyond) "home in" and ascertain how Greg is doing, whether he is on an even emotional keel or distressed somehow. And when something *really* hits the fan I know it...I suffered through a traumatic reunion/re-breakup he went through with an old girlfriend. He and I have carried on, perhaps not whole conversations but sent messages to each other telepathically. I'm not as good at it as he is. But I manage. 93/93 HL 703 ... OFFLINE 1.35 * Coming soon: C.'.M.'.T.'..... --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (93:9700/0) Date: Fri Jun 26 1992 06:26:12 From: Karl Lembke To: All Subj: Thirteen Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- I am looking for information on the significance, magical and otherwise, of the number thirteen. I have some references at home, and a few ideas, but any input from others would be appreciated. ___ X SLMR 1.0 X "The Rite Stuff" --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (93:9700/0) Date: Sun Jun 28 1992 16:09:00 From: Josh To: Phil Hansford Subj: Psychic Phenomena Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- PH> I think it is important to really think about what we are PH> saying here PH> though. I think even the stock deffinition of magick from PH> Aleister PH> Crowley maybe falls short of *meaning*. PH> What good is a deffinition of magick if we don't understand it? PH> into a bit later. But for now, let's consider what may be the PH> root or essence of magick...Psychic phenomena. I believe Magick is only partly Psychic Phenomena, all dependent on the type of Magick you are using. I believe Magick is very much Divine Phenomena. Josh --- SuperBBS 1.16 (Eval) * Origin: The Underground (206)277-6933 (93:9708/10) Date: Mon Jun 29 1992 08:25:32 From: Phil Hansford To: Karl Lembke Subj: Thirteen Magick Class ------------------------------- KL> I am looking for information on the significance, KL> magical and otherwise, KL> of the number thirteen. I have some references at KL> home, and a few ideas, KL> but any input from others would be appreciated. I believe some wiccans place significance in this number (traditional number for a coven). I suggest you take your question to the Wicca, Magicknet or Numerology echos...It is rather off topic here in the online magick class at this time. //Phil// --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (93:9700/0) Date: Mon Jun 29 1992 08:28:10 From: Phil Hansford To: Josh Subj: Psychic Phenomena Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- J> I believe Magick is only partly Psychic Phenomena, J> all dependent on the type of Magick you are using. J> I believe Magick is very much Divine Phenomena. You are entitled to believe what you will. however, with your mind already made up like that, I have nothing to teach you...I suggest you drop out of this echo. //Phil// Date: Mon Jun 29 1992 08:30:46 From: Phil Hansford To: Michelle Hass Subj: Psychic Phenomena Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- PH> Specifically, what is psychic phenomena? MH> MH> It is the display of mental abilities that MH> A.) we usually don't use; MH> B.) we are starting to see pop up in people more and more, MH> possibly as a symptom of an evolutionary leap in the MH> species Homo sapiens sapiens; MH> C.) we haven't quite understood yet, but with application MH> of Quantum Theory to Psychology and Brain Physiology we MH> are beginning to get inklings about what might be going MH> on. MH> PH> Is it real? MH> MH> In short...hell yes! Thanks for an enthusiastic and most excellent response. //Phil// Date: Mon Jun 29 1992 21:36:18 From: Dan Berger To: Phil Hansford Subj: Psychic Phenomena Magick Class ------------------------------- When I read MAGICK.ARC, I got the impression that psychic phenomena encompasses a broader spectrum than what many, or at least I, had thought. Some intuitive leaps of thought are so amazing they could certainly be thought of as psychic phenomena. On the other end of things, changes in what we normally consider to be firmly in the physical world may be influenced by human thought, and thus be psychic phenomena as well. As for examples, I recall a few times in my life when I saw an accident, clear as reality, just moments before it happened. I was terribly disappointed that I couldn't warn the people involved in time, but none were serious anyway. What constitutes psychic phenomena depends very much on what definition of reality you subscribe to. Some believe that reality is an absolute, and that we all simply perceive it differently, using our own gifts and limitations. Others feel we create reality in our minds, and to control our minds is to control reality. I think most people feel somewhere in between. --- Maximus 2.00 * Origin: Mysteria * Home of the Online Magick Class (93:9700/0) Date: Wed Jul 01 1992 10:12:00 From: Darren Hanson To: All Subj: Link Check magick Class ------------------------------- I've been trying to get this echo relinked back to my BBS. Are we live yet? Mr Harnsford, could you please reply when/if you get this? Thanks! Brightest Blessings Darren Hanson * Origin: Otter Limits: Strange things are known to happen here (93:9702/1) Date: Thu Jul 02 1992 13:29:26 From: Phil Hansford To: Darren Hanson Subj: Link Check Magick Class ------------------------------- DH> I've been trying to get this echo relinked back to DH> my BBS. Are we live yet? Mr Harnsford, could you DH> please reply when/if you get this? Thanks! Yes, your link is working again (in a relative way, grin). //Phil// Date: Thu Jul 02 1992 13:45:20 From: Phil Hansford To: Dan Berger Subj: Psychic Phenomena Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- DB> When I read MAGICK.ARC, I got the impression that psychic phenomena DB> encompasses a broader spectrum than what many, or DB> at least I, had thought. Yes, parapsychologists have made the topic pretty comprehensive. This is interesting too, when you stop to think that there may be a single root operating principle in all psychic phenomena. I guess my written material covered a lot of examples, but it was intended to show how widespread psychic phenomena really is. The reality/existence of psychic phenomena is the one main assumption or premise of this course. DB> As for examples, I recall a few times in my DB> life when I saw an accident, clear as reality, just DB> moments before it happened. I was terribly DB> disappointed that I couldn't warn the people DB> involved in time, but none were serious anyway. How interesting...Then you have very obvious psychic talents. One could linger here in discussions about predestiny and the inability of a psychic to alter or prevent such things as accidents. My own experience and opinion in this is that there is usually a moment in time, even if only a brief window, where events can be altered. On the other hand, since precognition often contains emotional elements (strong emotions 'radiate' psychic energy, as it were), certain types of precognitized events may be difficult to change. Of course there are other methods to alter precognized events besides attempting to warn the people. What sort of experience/results have you had with PK? //Phil// Date: Fri Jul 03 1992 21:30:00 From: Eric Levinson To: Phil Hansford Subj: Psychic Phenomena Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- Psychic Phenomena are Date: Fri Jul 03 1992 14:32:08 From: Frater Ehubi To: Phil Hansford Subj: Re: PSYCHIC PHENOMENA Magick Class ------------------------------- 93, Phil and all! Psychic phenomena seems to be used mostly to cover mysterious forms of communication and action-at-a-distance. On a wider scale, just about anything inexplicable by science has been tagged a "psychic phenomenon." I personally prefer to use the PP phrase to mean "unexpected, improbable, and meaningful correlations between my mind and the outer world." This definition is similar to that used by Jung for his term "synchronicity." Note that I distinguish between PP and (ritual) magick because the results of the latter are planned or expected. I think PP in this sense are real, but emerge mostly through your own unconscious mind's subtle manipulation of your actions to bring about "messages" in the patterns you encounter. Very rarely, these messages do require extraphysical mechanisms to explain them, and of course this latter set are the most interesting. My own best example of PP at work is rather personal and difficult to describe, but involved the Universe using a four-month period to hurl scores of events, symbols, and situations at me, some wildly improbable and carrying multiple layers of meaning, all designed to transform my previous stolid atheism into a budding Qabalistic theism. It was this period which resulted in my joining OTO, among other crucial life changes. It is easy to say that only my own mind was at work here; I can only claim that my own introspection finds no parallel for the feeling of external guidance I had during that period. By the way, I'm enjoying the class so far -- keep up the good work! 93, Ehubi --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: TahutiNet - Baphomet Lodge OTO, Anaheim CA (1:103/175) Date: Sat Jul 04 1992 09:56:58 From: Phil Hansford To: Eric Levinson Subj: Psychic Phenomena Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- EL> Psychic Phenomena are Yes, they certainly are! (grin) //Phil// Date: Tue Jun 30 1992 13:43:00 From: Josh To: Phil Hansford Subj: Psychic Phenomena Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- * Replying to a message originally to Josh on Jun-29-92 PH> J> I believe Magick is only partly Psychic Phenomena, PH> J> all dependent on the type of Magick you are using. PH> J> I believe Magick is very much Divine Phenomena. PH> You are entitled to believe what you will. PH> However, with your mind already made up like that, I have PH> nothing to PH> teach you...I suggest you drop out of this echo. PH> PH> //Phil// Whoa...Ok. Didn't mean to offend anyone. Josh --- SuperBBS 1.16 (Eval) * Origin: The Underground (206)277-6933 (93:9708/10) Date: Mon Jul 13 1992 21:09:14 From: Phil Hansford To: Frater Ehubi Subj: Re: PSYCHIC PHENOMENA Magick Class ------------------------------- FE> Psychic phenomena seems to be used mostly to cover mysterious forms FE> of communication and action-at-a-distance. On a FE> wider scale, just about anything inexplicable by FE> science has been tagged a "psychic phenomenon." I FE> personally prefer to use the PP phrase to mean FE> "unexpected, improbable, and meaningful FE> correlations between my mind and the outer world." Parapsychologists are rather specific about it. And while it may appear that psychic phenomena is being used as a catch all phrase for the improbable, there is very strong statistical evidence to support the thesis that ESP and PK are real. FE> My own best example of PP at work is rather personal and difficult FE> to describe, but involved the Universe using a FE> four-month period to hurl scores of events, FE> symbols, and situations at me, some wildly FE> improbable and carrying multiple layers of FE> meaning, all designed to transform my previous FE> stolid atheism into a budding Qabalistic theism. That happens. Actually, it happens all the time. Date: Mon Jul 13 1992 21:26:56 From: Phil Hansford To: All Subj: Sub-personalities agick Class ------------------------------- Just as it makes sense to describe something large in terms of its smaller parts, so it makes equal sense to describe the personality in terms of its parts. That will help us to understand personality better and to get a 'handle' on it. And so we can look at one's personality as made up of parts, which we will call sub-personalities. Each sub-personality contains a unique quality that separates it from the rest of the personality and signifies it. Any single behavior pattern can then be considered to be or to be part of a sub-personality. The way we look at the world, and the way we experience it, is colored by what we have learned about it. Our physical senses look out through a distorting veil of preconceived notions. The collection of preconceived notions and attitudes, the worldview or 'map' by which we judge physical reality, we will call a model. Models and sub-personalities. These are learned things. And while we need them to interact and survive, they very often limit our potentials. We tend to experience what we anticipate and expect to experience. Our lives generally go the way we want them to go. There are no surprises. In magick we learn to tap into the inner essence of the personality known as the True Will. Everything else is just icing on the cake. The next question then is, what is the True Will? What did Aleister Crowley mean by 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.'? //Phil// Date: Wed Jul 15 1992 00:43:00 From: Ian Kesser To: Phil Hansford Subj: True Will Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- (I have resolved NOT to go over to my Crowley book and disk collection for this one :) ) What you described in the question is pretty much what I've always called "the Blinders of Conciousness" or sometimes "Tunnel Conciousness". It is the web we weave around ourselves to explain our experiences, or to protect us from things we fear, because we don't understand them. The True Will can be seen in two ways, IMHO. In Crowley's vision, if I do remember correctly, there is that within us which knows the Great Work which we must accomplish while we are here (in this existence). I believe this is what is meant by Holy Guardian Angel, but some things I've been reading/hearing lately seem to lead to the conclusion that the H.G.A., while an important guide to ones True Will, is NOT the same thing as the Divine part within, which is THE arbiter of the True Will. Whether these are one in the same or not, the concept of True Will is not altered: The Will to do that which *must* be done in order to achieve what *must* be achieved. There is another way to look at the True Will, that is, the Will of your Higher Self. Stripping away the concept of the Great Work (which is NOT something that I am currently knowledgeable enough to pass judgement on, just to speculate about), it is still quite possible to have a Higher Self within, which could be either the Unity with the Divine, as is sometimes said, or simply the true version of oneself, without the Blinders created by physical existence. This Higher Self, whether or not it has a Great Work to accomplish necessary for the Balance, may still have a reason for coming to this physical existence: learning, loving, perhaps even entertainment. The True Will, in this system, would be the Will of that within which is your True Self, your own Will unbound of the shackles of Physicality. It may seem like I just used over a full screen of text to explain a trifling point of doctrine, that being the Great Work or lack thereof, but I think the distinction, while subtle in appearance, makes one holy h*ll of a difference, and therefore I hope that you (or others in this echo, IF that is permitted) can advise me on this point. In answer to your final question, what did Crowley mean by Do What Thou Wilt... , it means that we have a course, a path, laid down for us by the Highest, and we should exert all our efforts into following that path, for that is what is meant to be. If we do this, we can do no wrong, for this is what is meant to be, and therefore no additional Laws are required. While I consider myself partially Thelemic in beliefs, I still have not had the opportunity to study more in this area, which is why the confusion/speculation on the Great Work. Ian þ MMST 2.09 UnRegistered : Thou canst do anything thou wilt at Aleister's Rest. * Origin: The Underground (206)277-6933 (93:9708/10) Date: Wed Jul 15 1992 01:08:02 From: Ian Kesser To: Phil Hansford Subj: True Will Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- (I have resolved NOT to go over to my Crowley book and disk collection for this one :) ) What you described in the question is pretty much what I've always called "the Blinders of Conciousness" or sometimes "Tunnel Conciousness". It is the web we weave around ourselves to explain our experiences, or to protect us from things we fear, because we don't understand them. The True Will can be seen in two ways, IMHO. In Crowley's vision, if I do remember correctly, there is that within us which knows the Great Work which we must accomplish while we are here (in this existence). I believe this is what is meant by Holy Guardian Angel, but some things I've been reading/hearing lately seem to lead to the conclusion that the H.G.A., while an important guide to ones True Will, is NOT the same thing as the Divine part within, which is THE arbiter of the True Will. Whether these are one in the same or not, the concept of True Will is not altered: The Will to do that which *must* be done in order to achieve what *must* be achieved. There is another way to look at the True Will, that is, the Will of your Higher Self. Stripping away the concept of the Great Work (which is NOT something that I am currently knowledgeable enough to pass judgement on, just to speculate about), it is still quite possible to have a Higher Self within, which could be either the Unity with the Divine, as is sometimes said, or simply the true version of oneself, without the Blinders created by physical existence. This Higher Self, whether or not it has a Great Work to accomplish necessary for the Balance, may still have a reason for coming to this physical existence: learning, loving, perhaps even entertainment. The True Will, in this system, would be the Will of that within which is your True Self, your own Will unbound of the shackles of Physicality. It may seem like I just used over a full screen of text to explain a trifling point of doctrine, that being the Great Work or lack thereof, but I think the distinction, while subtle in appearance, makes one holy h*ll of a difference, and therefore I hope that you (or others in this echo, IF that is permitted) can advise me on this point. In answer to your final question, what did Crowley mean by Do What Thou Wilt... , it means that we have a course, a path, laid down for us by the Highest, and we should exert all our efforts into following that path, for that is what is meant to be. If we do this, we can do no wrong, and therefore no additional Laws are required. While I consider myself partially Thelemic in beliefs, I still have not had the opportunity to study more in this area, which is why the confusion/speculation on the Great Work. Ian þ MMST 2.09 UnRegistered : Thou canst do anything thou wilt at Aleister's Rest. * Origin: The Underground (206)277-6933 (93:9708/10) Date: Thu Jul 16 1992 04:27:00 From: Josh Scott To: Ian Kesser Subj: True Will Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- IK> Wilt... , it means that we have a course, a path, laid down for IK> us by IK> the Highest, and we should exert all our efforts into following IK> that IK> path, for that is what is meant to be. If we do this, we can IK> do no IK> wrong, and therefore no additional Laws are required. I tend to lean towards this approach. After ruling out several obvious misinterpretations, I think Thelemic Law though defiant in superficial appearance, truly represents a very old, very solid magickal philosophy as well as a seemingly common doctrine found in many other religions. By this I mean; take for example "Love under Will." In Judaistic/Christian (Bible) teachings, it is plain that God's Will for you is above all, without exception ("lest ye die!") ... This is apparent in the parables and stories of Abraham and Isaac, the Old Testaments laws, etc. However, I think the major distinction is found in where the source of this law is. Personally, I believe the human race holds potential generally untapped. Potential accessible and manageable through Magick. And I think this is where I differ the most from conventional religion. As opposed to worship of the guiding power of all man (a force outside of ourselves, theoretically); Magick places the focus inward and outward at the same time. This is the phenomenon of self-realization, the discovery of your true will, or Conversation with YOUR Holy Guardian Angel. (I think I too used a screen and a half to make a rather obvious point, but I don't post much in here.) Josh * Origin: The Underground (206)277-6933 (93:9708/10) Date: Fri Jul 17 1992 18:51:00 From: Eric To: Phil Hansford Subj: Sub-personalities Attr: recvd Magick Class ------------------------------- PH>Just as it makes sense to describe something large in terms of its smaller PH>parts, so it makes equal sense to describe the personality PH>in terms of its parts. That will help us to understand personality PH>better and to get a 'handle' on it. PH>And so we can look at one's personality as made up of parts, which PH>we will call sub-personalities. Each sub-personality contains a PH>unique quality that separates it from the rest of the personality PH>and signifies it. Any single behavior pattern can then be considered PH>to be or to be part of a sub-personality. PH>The next question then is, what is the True Will? PH>What did Aleister Crowley mean by 'Do what thou wilt shall be the PH>whole of the law.'? I don't know that I like splitting the personality into parts. Reductionism has been a very powerful tool in the scientific realm. Its appeal is that it simplifies what we are looking at in order to comprehend it. The idea is that we can join up these parts and have the whole. My feeling for Magick is that it transcends that process. Try to bring it in line with the reductionist ethic and you're left with EST. The search for true will is not a bifurcation of the personality. It is the kernel of our being that ultimately drives us. How close we can come to that by stripping away the layers that hide and protect us from the rest of the world defines our limitations as magicians. "Do what thou wilt" turns on fully understanding "what thou wilt." It is not a call to untrammeled license. It is a call to look at what it is that is our *true* essense and follow it. Ritual Magick is a dangerous pursuit and following wholly is not a part-time job. Only one who is willing to come very close to his True Will can follow it. The answer to those questions is what I seek. Eric --- WM v1.01 [Unregistered] * Origin: Altered States BBS (209) 466-2604 (1:208/215) Date: Sun Jul 19 1992 19:25:50 From: Phil Hansford To: Eric Subj: Sub-personalities Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- E> I don't know that I like splitting the personality into parts. E> Reductionism has been a very powerful tool in the scientific realm. E> Its appeal is that it simplifies what we are looking at in order to E> comprehend it. The idea is that we can join up these parts and E> have the whole. E> My feeling for Magick is that it transcends that process. Try to bring E> it in line with the reductionist ethic and you're left with EST. You have managed to miss my points comprehensively. We are not splitting the personality in order to understand it We are aledgeing it is made up of parts in order to manage it. Just as you cannot learn to drive a car without learning about its parts, so you cannot learn to drive your personality without treating it as if it is made up of parts. I didn't say the personality is actually made up of sub personalities, only that this is a way to look at it, a theory, if you will. Magick, and your model too, is made up of theories, just like this one. Nothing says the theories are right, but you use them, nonetheless. E> The search for true will is not a bifurcation of the personality. E> It is the kernel of our being that ultimately drives us. How You are arguing semantics here...On the one hand you say the personality is an inseparable unit. And on the other you say that the 'kernal' of the True Will is not a part of the personality. Rather a contradiction. Regardless of how you word it, you seem to have your mind rather made up here. If that is the case, then I have nothing to teach you and you should drop out of this echo. E> "Do what thou wilt" turns on fully understanding "what thou wilt." It E> is not a call to untrammeled license. It is a call to look at what it E> is that is our *true* essense and follow it. I suggest you go back and review Magick.Arc, for you have again missed the point here. What you describe is cute, but incomplete. For you *do* your true will whether you realize it or not. 'Do what thou wilt' is a law of the universe, the *only* law of the universe. E> Ritual Magick is a E> dangerous pursuit and following wholly is not a part- E> time job. Only one E> who is willing to come very close to his True Will can follow it. You've been watching too many late night movies. Ritual magick is not especially dangerous, unless you want/expect it to be. I think once again, you have missed the point. //Phil// Date: Sun Jul 19 1992 19:50:40 From: Phil Hansford To: Ian Kesser Subj: True Will Attr: Magick Class ------------------------------- IK> What you described in the question is pretty much what I've always IK> called "the Blinders of Conciousness" or sometimes "Tunnel IK> Conciousness". It is the web we weave around ourselves to explain our IK> experiences, or to protect us from things we fear, because we don't IK> understand them. Exactly. //Phil// -- * Origin: Otter Limits: Strange things are known to happen here (93:9702/1) I have enjoyed being part of this echo, even though it's quite possible that I have not been a very active participant for a while. One day I shall return from the shadows and take part in this area once again. Until next we meet (here)... May the Sun's golden rays ever brighten your days, May the Moon's silvery light calm your nights, May the Ancient's wisdom fill with wonder your bosom, and May the Goddess's love lift you above all hurt and woe. Blessed Be! Shadow * Walker