[Message Area] : Wicca_Echo Message Number: [1090] From: Moon Puppy Date: 04-02-90 To: steve rose Time: 19:05 Subject: Re: Wolves In Ritual SeeAalso: 1103 EID:4f73 148298a1 >> Another Cat person here too.. Well I used to think I was a cat person. Then a friend identifies my power animal for me: The Koala Bear. :-D Live and learn, hee hee MP Does being a "Cat person" have anything to do with power animals? I know great hulking people who have bear totems and they resemble bears.. Then the people who "claim" wolves as their power animals have the same strengths of leadership and same weaknesses of scattered energy and concentration. <==== BIG DISCLAIMER this comment is from the three "wolf people who I know" I am not attacking Wolves (I'm out numbered) I am just asking if there is a correlation of traits to animal and person. If so what. MP howling in the moonlight --- * Origin: NPI I (617-593-0081) Lynn, Mass. (Opus 1:101/192) Message Number: [1091] From: Mike Nichols Date: 04-02-90 To: Randy Niere Time: 23:32 Subject: Re: Pangur Ban >How about the olive that is served with the martini? Let us not be silly. (better knock it off, sweetheart, if we use any MORE we'l have to pay a royalty!) --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1092] From: Fr. Ens Date: 04-02-90 To: All Time: 11:41 Subject: 8 come 11 EID:d649 14825d20 I have been giving continued thought to the shift of Justice and Strength in the latter day, after the Golden Dawn. Can anyone justify, numerologically, without referance to the Tarot 8 as signifying Stength and 11 as signifying Justice. In some of the numerology 8 signifies Saturn and is considered a malign number. This fits the negative side of Justic 11 is always considered a power number, sometimes too powerful to handle. This certainly fits the Strength attribution Tetragrammeton numerates 26 (2+6=8). I believe the change was made by Rosicruxian adepts in Germany and sent off to England in the famous manuscript that Wescott and other Masons discovered which then became the basis of the Golden Dawm and all the contemporary rosy cross groups. I feel they made the change to de-emphasize Tetragammeton as a God of Justice but rather as a God of Strength (good nordic thinking). I suspect someone was troubled about the Justice Trump as an expression of Yod-he-vav-he. Adonai (sometimes considered Higher Self) numerates 65 (6+5=11 I cannot feel comfortable with Higher Self as Justice...but the Strenth Trump is gentle and powerful at the same time and feels good. Long ago I made peace with Justice. With only two minutes left all I can say is 359! --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1093] From: Lone Star Date: 04-02-90 To: Salgamma Time: 16:45 Subject: Re: MAGICKNET BREAKDOWN SeeAalso: 1106 We havent received anything for almost a week and our feed comes directly from Brad also. This echo also seems to be erratic. Bright Blessings...Lone Star --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Atlanta Connection - Home of WICCA in Atlanta (133/205) Message Number: [1094] From: Paul Hume Date: 04-01-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 20:43 Subject: Re: Still Sex Questions SeeAalso: 1096 EID:11fc 1481a561 Moon Puppy - Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. I think there was a go round on Polarity and Gender-sensitive terminology on one of the echoes a while back. Without going into that can of worms )worms? Writhing locks of Medusa!) again, it makes sense to me that: 1) Given the concept of Polarity... 2)... the great biological polarity of the sexes is going to become a potent symbol for the "higher" level polarity. 3) Unfortunately, western mindset (dualism) and language (light= positive=creative=good, dark=negative=destructive=bad) which reflects that mindset, PLUS cultural issues (though the enlightened old East is hardly a hotbed of Sexual Liberation, one might note) means that... 4) A cops and robbers problem arises when "assigning" polar roles to the genders. The form takes precendece over the substance, or if you will, the sign rules over (super) the meaning (stitio) - ie. magick becomes tainted with superstition. Crowley tells us that the Masculine formula is that which penetrates, the Feminine formula that which enfolds. The Male pole is the atomic point of energy, the Female pole the infinite circle of the Heavens. These concepts are less loaded than the old Active vs. Passive, Light vs. Dark, etc. but mean the same things, just with less loaded labels. The problem, perhaps, arises, because people will try and try to assign "moral" terms to factors which are no more subject to "morals" than the various critters of particle physics. Love is the law, love under will. (Which does not mean screw anything that you can hold down) Paul / --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [1095] From: Paul Hume Date: 04-01-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 20:52 Subject: Re: Greek Orthodox X-tian SeeAalso: 1160 EID:566b 1481a695 MP 93. Note #1 (headgames) is correct. On several points. The dude is indeed not following his own "rules" since you are not supposed to exist for him. Whether he is trying to save your soul or get into your pants (or both) is secondary. Orthodoxy does not have a recognized magickal tradition - no more than Catholoicism does, for example. If he is Russian Orthodox, it would not surprise me, since, while that branch is similarly intolerant, the dividing line in some of the mystical sects between magick and religion gets thin (as it should). Bona Fortuna is latin for good luck - if he named it as a Goddess, then he is indeed either ignorant, or playing games. His remark about openings, not closings, closings, blah blah blah is reminiscent of some crapola being shovelled out by the "Divine Magic" crowd floating around the New Age movement. Since our stuff is all that messy old nasty magick, and theirs is up-to-date, they can see (and correct) all the damage us unenlightened types do. My attitude towards this is apparent from the reasonable tone of my writing. ...and the horse they rode in on, (hmm - where'd the first phrase go? Yo, Apple - are you getting censorious on me?) This is the same line of free advice (and worth every penny, let me assure you) I'd roll out if this subject came up at a party (after the second whiskey sour). Since I am freshly back from a gaming/SF convention, my psyche is attuned to the same high level of sensitivity as it would be after the eucharist of blended, lemon juice, and bitters, so you can trust that! Love is the law, love under will. paul --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [1096] From: Paul Hume Date: 04-01-90 To: Randy Niere Time: 21:06 Subject: Re: Still Sex Questions Previous Reply: 1094 SeeAalso: 1117 EID:46d0 1481a8c8 Randy - 93. In saying that in a Great Rite with "non-traditional casting" there is risk in energizing by magick that which is "not present by nature," I don't mean to say "against nature" , "unnatural" , etc. But that this is going to involve psychological and magickal impact that are, indeed, dangerous to the unprepared (I seem to recall that most of the more formal trads in Wicca reserve the GR to 3rd degree - or whatever term is used to mean a fully fledged initiate). Agreed, the magician who is least "Goddesslike" needs a good dose of Goddess, and vice-versa for "God-minus" ones (and this also regardless of physical gender). However, it is the act of a Saint (rare in any tradition) to throw open oneself to the Divine AND stay incarnate after success. Most of us have to build up gradual. Outta time - back soon. Law=Will/love Paul --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [1097] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-02-90 To: Tiffany Hall-Graham Time: 20:20 Subject: Re: Fishy stuff SeeAalso: 1140 EID:d098 1482a28e > I'm just going to save myself a lot of trouble and never die. 8-) Yeah! Immortality! Now why didn't I think of that? -Blessed Buzzings, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1098] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-02-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 20:22 Subject: Re: child ethics SeeAalso: 1101 EID:d098 1482a2cd > I guess some people just don't want to understand My theory is that on some deep level, these types of people feel that they are missing out on something that "we" have found. Since they can't put their finger on what "it" is, and since we go about doing such weird things, we must be weird, demented, or just plain evil! In short, another case of the ego being too stupid to admit it doesn't always understand what's going on... -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1099] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-02-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 20:34 Subject: Re: To reincarnate or not to reincarnate... SeeAalso: 1141 EID:c6d0 1482a459 I think everyone sometimes experiences a fear of death, rooting from the fact that the ego fears that which it does not understand. In time, even if it takes many lifetimes, I believe we all will learn that everything is going to turn out okay, even if this process takes many lifetimes. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1100] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-02-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 20:38 Subject: Re: Summerland EID:d098 1482a4cd > I'd be perfectly willing to share my energies (even all of > them) with the universe, but I want to be able to at least "know" where I > exist and not be totally annialated. As Paul pointed out, this feeling is a natural part of the growth process, as well as the prime job of the ego. All of us have the potential to live in constant ecstacy, but the put it bluntly, are too stupid to realize it. Our minds are incapable of handling such enlightenment, so the ego steps in as a guide through the material world, helping us learn which choices are in line with our true will. Unfortunately, the ego tends to go overboard in this task, and as I stated a couple messages back, it feeds the concious mind the false impression that anything not part of our true will is "bad" in some way. True wisdom is the quality which allows us to seperate what is truly wrong (in the sense that it infringes unneccesarily on our will) from that which is simply not meant to be part of our ultimate personal existence. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1101] From: Nightwind Date: 04-02-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 07:39 Subject: Re: child ethics Previous Reply: 1098 SeeAalso: 1195 EID:df1c 14823ce9 ...and circle participation. You mention that you don't know anyonwe who attends a circle wnd does not participate (sorry if my paraphrasing is a bit off). One aspect of participating in a circle that I've always found attractive is that you can choose your own level of participation. Although I'm a solitary, I have been to several circles in which I was invited to participate along with the regular coveners, and it was very powerful. And I've been to circles in which I chose to provide only supportive energy to the group, and found the power no less significant. Regardless of how I took part, the coverners were warm and welcoming. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that one can attend circle and, though not being an active participant, still benefit from it. And kids, although they may not be truly involved, should get some benefit from being near their parent(s) while the parent(s) are taking part in a fun, empowering, spiritual experience. This presumes that the children are not disrupting the ritual, though. When I was first exploring the Wiccan path, I was really struck by the respect that is given to each individual's spiritual practice. Unlike so many other paths, where losing one's identity in the great, chanting group (i.e., complete conformity with the 'model' congregant) is so critical to acceptance. Blessed be! Nightwind --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [1102] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-02-90 To: Ammond Shadowcraft Time: 07:27 Subject: Re: dreamtime EID:c6f4 14823b7b i've really got to get my gateway SW working and hook into USENET - i'm missing too much interesting stuff bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [1103] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-04-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 22:13 Subject: Re: Wolves In Ritual Previous Reply: 1090 SeeAalso: 1105 EID:c6f4 1484b1a4 wolves = scattered energy and concentration say waht ????? ever seen a hunt pack work cooperativly in the chase/cull/kill ???? - or their pack "day care" system for the young ???? or a single animal dancing with the falling leaves or "stalking" mice/other small mammels ???? they are a perfect blend of unique individuality and tribe ... quite able to exist as individuals, but able to blend together as a single unit/group-mind when necessary. is it any wonder why those of us of celtic descent seem to relate so well to them as totem animals? (warrior/family/tribe/clann/nation/people) bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [1104] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-03-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 12:32 Subject: Re: BISEXUALS SeeAalso: 1430 > of common bond) that I too have been called numerous names. > Hope that > we can get everything going back on a normal path now!!! Absolutely. Bright Blessings! -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1105] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-03-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 12:59 Subject: Re: Wolves In Ritual Previous Reply: 1103 SeeAalso: 1145 > correlation of traits to animal and person. If so what. I think so, but it can work numerous different ways I suspect. In my case I am very much a cat lover but my familiar ended up being a cat who was amazingly bearlike; protective, strong, husky, opinionated -- not at all what I'd originally been appealed to by in cats, nor what I would have chosen as a totem animal. As time has gone by, however, it has become very clear that a _polar bear_ (which my little bear resembles to an uncanny degree) is a perfect totem animal, not because we have much in common, but because we _complement_ each other. The bear provides me with those characteristics that I need more of: self-protection, fierceness, strength, courage. I didn't expect that when I went looking for a totem; thought it'd be something that was "like me"... possibly a mouse or a rabbit :) . But this turns out to be infinitely better. Blessed be! -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1106] From: Salgamma Date: 04-03-90 To: Lone Star Time: 23:19 Subject: Re: MAGICKNET BREAKDOWN Previous Reply: 1093 In a message to Salgamma <04-02-90 16:45> Lone Star wrote: > We havent received anything for almost a week and our feed > comes directly from Brad also. This echo also seems to be > erratic. Well, I got a packet today, but it seems I'm getting bad messages and creating a real mess. I hope this doesn't continue! :) B*B Salgamma --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1107] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-03-90 To: Sysop Jack&Jill Time: 20:52 Subject: Re: OF INTEREST EID:9ce7 1483a689 Thanks for passing this on but the Wicca echo has been actively pursuing this topic for a few weeks now. Tiffany is now in the "thanks for all the ideas" phase of research... Your concern to see that this (and other topics) does get networked out *is* appreciated. BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1108] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-03-90 To: Tiffany Hall-Graham Time: 20:58 Subject: Germany EID:9ce7 1483a748 >I will be leaving for Germany around May 15... Greetings from Fennas Isatrion! Between the Worlds Network can help you find resources in Europe. You can contact the European Hub c/o Saruman Duerkheimer Str. 1a 6520 Worms/Rhein, FRG (That's snail-mail!) If you're in Worms, drop by that address, buzz the apt. and yell "Blesseed Be!" at the 4th floor window. If you're in need of a flop, you should be able to crash on the couch, no problem! As for BBSes, Peter Elliot has one running in England ( I think he's carrying MagickNet) call 4 (England) 0223 324997. NOTE: you MUST have a German *acoustic coupler* and get it registered with the Bundes Post. Diesem bekostet VIELE DM! The German phone system can't handle the signals from our high speed modems, and the Bundes Post (in typische Big Brother style) imposes many restrictions on data transmission (read: seeks to severely limit the access and transferal of information.) For further info on BtWN or whatever, just e-mail me. Good luck. Germany really is a beautiful place. BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1109] From: The Magician Date: 04-03-90 To: Lone Star Time: 22:02 Subject: Re: CIRCLE SANCTUARY In a message to The Magician <04-01-90 15:55> Lone Star wrote: LS> So what shall we talk about? How about local networking in Olando? (Seriously!) A friend of mine called Leorick Windwalker (he tells me you're not related...) is starting a local network in Orlando. Interested? BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1111] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-04-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 01:19 Subject: Re: Phunny Phone Calls SeeAalso: 1133 EID:9ce7 14840a67 One of our local police officers also owns/operates one of our local Craft shops! Only open on Saturdays until he retires.... BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1112] From: Taarna Star Date: 04-04-90 To: Tiffany Time: 04:01 Subject: Children in the Circle EID:9ce7 14842036 I've never used a system with a NET before, I hope I'm replying to the right person. Anyway, we have had infant children in the circle for some time now. The infant in question is now almost 6 months, but she has come to circle since birth from necessity. We have never had any problems and when the women who is her biological mother needs to be elsewhere, we simply pass the baby. Recently, after mentioning it to Russ, we brought an older child (10 years) into the circle. She was carefully consulted as to whether or not she chose to be there, and then consulted again if her energy level seems low. So far she has been able to contribute as much energy as the weakest coven member, so we have not had any other problems with it. This applies, however, to when we work within an urban environment. I'm not sure how it will work out when we go to the mountains for our circle there. Blesses Be! Taarna* --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1113] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-04-90 To: The Magician Time: 01:04 Subject: Re: the advocates, and dan and deanna tyler EID:64cf 14840889 Someone posted most, if not all of the article, and I intend to write a letter to the editor of the publication in which the aforementioned article appeared, in an attempt to clear up some of the misconceptions. I'm actually not too interested in contacting the Tylers themself, as they sound like the kind of people who are set in their ways to the point where an explanation isn't worth the effort. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1114] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-04-90 To: David Schaal Time: 01:13 Subject: Re: Big circles, nothing to do EID:c6d0 148409a1 I agree, and I feel the best route to go when working with a big circle is to keep things as simple as possible. Often, simply dancing, chanting in unison, and the like produces as much of a spiritual high as anything else, and is certainly a lot easier to organize than something more formal. I prefer to keep the really elaborate rituals in a small setting, working best with a very few people. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1115] From: Simon Waters Date: 04-04-90 To: Bjorn Meaddranker Time: 01:16 Subject: Re: ANCESTOR WORSHIP SeeAalso: 1212 EID:28db 14840a01 BM> Just remember that the worst person in history has lessons to teach. or (taken from local quote file): No one is so old he cannot learn or so young he cannot teach. -ROWAN MOONSTONE --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1116] From: Fr. Ens Date: 04-04-90 To: All Time: 07:26 Subject: Reincarnation SeeAalso: 1215 EID:d649 14843b53 Just saw a reincarnation drama on VCR, The Reincarnation of Peter Proud. Kind of a dumb melodrama with too much naked flesh and breasty sex, but not without its entertainment value...not spiritual, a little gross, but now without some kind of wierd message...like sex sells movies (I doubt the film grossed a whole hell of a lot). --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1117] From: Randy Niere Date: 04-04-90 To: Paul Hume Time: 11:17 Subject: Re: Still Sex Questions Previous Reply: 1096 SeeAalso: 1120 Bodhisatva, gonna sell my house in town, Bodhisatva, gonna sell my house in town, then I'll be there, the shine in your Japan, the sparkle of your China, then I'll be there, Bodhisatva. -- Steely Dan Just thought the disscussion needed a musical interlude. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1118] From: Joseph Teller Date: 04-04-90 To: All Time: 13:38 Subject: File Exchange Offer EID:4f73 14846cc9 Wonderland BBS 508-663-6220, Billerica MA is still loooking to exchange text files on Wicca and other Pagan interests with sysops across the country. We have been doing this with other boards regularly for a whiole and feel all can benefit from this. We have hundreds of such files online at our board presently and are busy trying to gather more. SYSOPS who are interested, please send, via US mail, disks (360K or 720K MSDOS compatable ASCII or compressed in LHARC or ZIP) and I will send back an equal amount of material as you send in the same format trying my very best not to duplicate anything you have sent us. Mailing Address : Joseph Teller, 40 Allen Rd., Billerica MA 01821. Users who have files to exchange can also follow the above. Users who would like files but have no files to trade, please send two blank disks for each one you wish us to fill with material and we'll keep the extra one to cover time and similar expenses and mail you what is available. Please specify if you want pure ascii or compressed formats (compressed is onlyTwYq really useful if yuo have a harddrive to decompress the files into). Joe Teller ]u} --- * Origin: NPI I (617-593-0081) Lynn, Mass. (Opus 1:101/192) Message Number: [1119] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-04-90 To: Fr. Ens Time: 21:02 Subject: Re: Reincarnation SeeAalso: 1202 In a message to All <04-04-90 07:26> Fr. Ens wrote: > Just saw a reincarnation drama on VCR, The Reincarnation > of Peter Proud. > Kind of a dumb melodrama with too much naked flesh and > breasty sex, but not without its entertainment value...not > spiritual, a little gross, but now without some kind of > wierd message...like sex sells movies (I doubt the film > grossed a whole hell of a lot). Not to be too picky here, but was there anything in the movie of value or interest to those of us in the "craft"? B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1120] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-04-90 To: Randy Niere Time: 21:09 Subject: Re: Still Sex Questions Previous Reply: 1117 SeeAalso: 1434 And I thought the sparkle was in the yuppies' waterford crystal stemware! --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1128] From: Brettski Date: 04-05-90 To: Fr. Ens Time: 14:30 Subject: (re) Justice/Strength EID:d75a 148573c4 Perhaps this question would be better answered if it were directed towards the Tarot Echo... (It's already been Debated there, with each person offering his or her own insight--) -Brett --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [1129] From: Jerome Birnbaum Date: 03-15-90 To: All Time: 19:38 Subject: Magickal Material * Original: FROM.....Jerome Birnbaum (107/666) * Original: TO.......All (107/666) * Forwarded by.......OPUS 107/666 EID:d75a 146f9cda 93 everyone Better your Magickal Workings...Save time and energy order via this bulletin board. Ceremonial Altar Cloths..designed to your specifications High Quality Abramelin Incense...reasonably priced "Death Cookie" ..a conversation on the Gnostic Mass between the late Richard Gernon and Jerome Peartree. Gnostic Mass..with many explanatory notes "Thirteen Tools Toward Enlightenment"..a home study program in basic magickal practices. "Points of Light" ...a monthly newsletter from us to you. For information leave a message for me or write to : Temple of the Eternal Light (T.O.T.E.L. Camp) 928 East Fifth Street, Brooklyn, New York 11230 --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [1130] From: Jerome Birnbaum Date: 04-05-90 To: All Time: 22:10 Subject: Magickal Materials EID:d75a 1485b149 For your "workings" pleasure..Order supplies via this Bulletin Board. Wiccan and OTO Robes..Handcrafted from natural fiber material. Handcrafted Altarcloths..sewn to your specifications or our standard designs Special Banners...WICCAN Watchtowers, Golden Dawn Style, OTO..Watchtowers "Thirteen Tools Toward Enlightenment" a unique home study program in magickal practices Abramelin Incense "Power Through Self-Trancing" a different style of meditation tape. and much more... Send for our free brochure NOW! Write to: Temple of the Eternal Light, 928 East Fifth St. Brooklyn, NY 11230 or leave a message for me on the Brooklyn BB. 93 and Blessed Be! Jerome --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [1131] (RECEIVED) From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-05-90 To: Doctor Rorschach Time: 09:27 Subject: Re: Hello SeeAalso: 4293 I would be very interested in meeting with this group in Jacksonville, as my coven down here is slowly spiralling down to a halt until summertime. -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [1132] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-05-90 To: Amergin O'kai Time: 09:30 Subject: Re: I did reply immediately... Previous Reply: 1110 SeeAalso: 4291 As a matter of fact, I would be. My father has finally broken down and realized the necessity of having another phone line. When this happens, Aga Windwalker's BBS, The Citadel will be online by the end of the following month! In the meantime, I will work on getting a tie in with a friend of mind who just recently joined Net 3600. I don't think that the host has put her into the FidoNet Nodelist just yet. Her new address will be 1:3600/16 (The Land Of Zelda BBS). When I go online, I'll probably be in net 3600 also...... -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [1133] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-05-90 To: Amergin O'kai Time: 09:32 Subject: Re: Phunny Phone Calls Previous Reply: 1111 SeeAalso: 1144 Recently, I have been thinking about the police force again, but I am still wary of that one meditation that I had. Anyway, I know that I will find the right path...... rather, I hope. -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [1140] From: Mike Nichols Date: 04-04-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 23:29 Subject: Re: Fishy stuff Previous Reply: 1097 RE: Immortality Millions long for immortality who don't know what to do on a rainy Sunday afternoon. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1141] From: Mike Nichols Date: 04-04-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 23:36 Subject: Re: To reincarnate or not to reincarnate... Previous Reply: 1099 SeeAalso: 1156 It is interesting to note that the biggest difference between Eastern and Western (pre-Christian) versions of reincarnation, is that Easterners usually believe that there comes a time when it "ends", when you "get off the wheel" of life, achieve nirvana, etc. But the Western version tended to stress the on-going-ness of it, and the fact that the individual ego-soul is never lost or obliterated. This seems to be connected to the fact that Eastern religions have more of a tendency to think of this present world as "evil", "illusion", "maya", etc. Whereas the old Western pagan religions seemed to think that this was a pretty nifty place to be. And that each ego-soul's "uniqueness" made an important contribution to the whole. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1142] From: Mike Nichols Date: 04-05-90 To: All Time: 00:18 Subject: healing BULLETIN ======== I just found out tonite that Scott Cunningham, author of numerous books on herbalism, magic, and Wicca, is in the hospital with spinal menengitis (sp?). For those who wish to light candles, invoke healings, etc., I'm sure the caring will be much appreciated. --Mike Nichols Magick Lantern BBS Kansas City, MO 816/523-1559 PS -- Please pass this msg along and let me know if anyone plans any coordinated healing rituals, etc. Thanks! --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1143] From: Lady Blackdragon Date: 04-04-90 To: Taarna Star Time: 09:26 Subject: Re: CHILDREN IN THE CIRCLE Taarna Star, The circle I've been in allows children of all ages. As you said above the one child has been coming from birth, as I also attended from birth. When I reached 16 I stopped going for about 2 years but I returned by choise. The other children who were raised within the coven I was, have branched off from our parents in to our own coven and circles. Most of us have been inside circles and a coven from birth, and we've never questioned the effects on our children. My baby goes with me, she's going on 10 months now, and the circles seem to help her insteed of get in the way. Lady BlackDragon --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [1144] From: Simon Waters Date: 04-04-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 20:51 Subject: Re: Phunny Phone Calls Previous Reply: 1133 SeeAalso: 1235 EID:078f 1484a661 AW> HONEST! They really do! A WHOLE busload of [old people] will go AW> ahead and come into town. THEY NEVER LEAVE..... they get taken along on the UFO that comes to pick up the cocoons.... --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1145] From: Camo Kat Date: 04-04-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 23:24 Subject: Re: Wolves In Ritual Previous Reply: 1105 SeeAalso: 1149 EID:bcd9 1484bb1b > Live and learn, hee hee MP > > Does being a "Cat person" have anything to do with power > animals? I know great hulking people who have bear totems > and they resemble bears.. Then the people who "claim" > wolves as their power animals have the same strengths > of leadership and same weaknesses of scattered energy and > concentration. <==== BIG DISCLAIMER this comment is from > the three "wolf people who I know" I am not attacking > Wolves (I'm out numbered) I am just asking if there is > a correlation of traits to animal and person. If so what. > MP howling in the moonlight I have seen that sort of thing with some supposed "cat people" too... Big cats are part of my power animals (several) and I have a strong connection to catkind. I can't tell you how many times I've been out walking late at night and had stray and non-stray cats follow me home merrily. 'Course, MY cat doesn't appreciate it a whole lot... she gets really pissed off at the other cats heheh. (They don't get in the house, but she smells them on my pants etc!) I just don't have the same feelings/connection with dogs. Dogs almost always like me, but it's not the same. As for physically, I'm fairly small. I'm about 5'5" and weigh about 110-120 lbs. I look like a "D&D" elf. heheh. --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1146] From: Paul Hume Date: 04-04-90 To: Fr. Ens Time: 08:53 Subject: Re: 8 come 11 SeeAalso: 1150 EID:da34 148446b8 Care frater, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. 8 = Cheth. A wall or enclosure, suggesting a citadel, ie. Strength. 11 = The two pillars - Justice not as punishment but as equilibrium. However, it is only IN the Tarot that Strength/Lust is 8 (corresponding to Teth, Leo, where the attribution in obvious) and Justice is 11 (corresponding to Libra - again, obvious). 11 is unity manifested - or divided, of course, in a negative sense. It is the "centerpoint" of the path of initiation, a mnemonic of the grades until one goes sailing off either end of the Tree of Life. It is in this sense that I have always interpreted 11 as the "collapsed" 65 of ADNI. Also as the Great Work accomplished, another meaning of 11. So what has this to do with the price of karma on Abiegnus? Love is the law, love under will. Paul --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [1147] From: Thomas Frost Date: 04-04-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 21:05 Subject: gateway software EID:58ca 1484a8a8 > i've really got to get my gateway SW working and hook > into USENET - i'm missing too much interesting stuff i've been looking for gateway software for a while, and everyone seems very vague about where to find it. A refers me to B who sends me to C who tells me to ask A. is there some reason i shouldn't know? (sorry for the off-topic comment. we now return you to wicker.) t.f. --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [1148] (RECEIVED) From: Steven Craig Date: 04-05-90 To: Doctor Rorschach Time: 01:50 Subject: Re: WOLVES IN RITUAL SeeAalso: 1192 EID:c6d0 14850e41 Yah, I empathize with you; lots of people think there's something sad or strange about going out and doing stuph by yourself. F'rinstance, when I have nothing to do on a Friday night, I'll often head over to the $1 discount cinema and catch a movie or two by myself. In telling people about this, though, they tend to think there is something sadly poetic in it... -Blessed Buzzings, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1149] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-05-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 01:54 Subject: Re: Wolves In Ritual Previous Reply: 1145 SeeAalso: 1151 EID:d098 14850ec5 Yah, I think that's the whole point of a power animal: finding one which mirrors your various traits as well as possible. While I have seen cases of folks bearing the physical qualities relevant to the power animal, I don't think it's by any means necessary. I've been doing a lot of thinking lately as to which of nature's little friends best reflects my personality. The closest I've come thus far is the Lion, which is a largely independent beast, but nonetheless has a tribe it falls back on from time to time. On the other hand, I don't share the lion's ferocious qualities, so it's not an exact match. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1150] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-05-90 To: Fr. Ens Time: 02:07 Subject: Re: 8 come 11 Previous Reply: 1146 SeeAalso: 1203 EID:c6d0 148510e9 You make a number of interesting points, which reinforce my conception of Strength in the 8th position and Justice in the 11th. For instance, you bring up the fact that ADNI ennumerates to 65; I have always attributed ADNI to the element of fire, which seems to bear the characteristics of Justice more than Strength (espescially in the elements role in Geburah.) YHVH, on the other hand, feels more valid when attributed to Strength. In my mind, the purpose of Tetragrammaton is to provide a symbol for the all encompassing nature of God, rather that the jealous, wrath-filled personification of contemporary Judeo-Christianity. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1151] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-04-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 18:35 Subject: Re: Wolves In Ritual Previous Reply: 1149 SeeAalso: 1161 EID:5db6 14849463 BW>...those of us of Celtic descent seem to relate so well to them (wolves) as totem animals. I'm *not* arguing with that (I like wolves very much), however, my primary totem animal is Boar, an animal who also blends clannic and individual energies well. BTW, Nigel Pennick in "Practical Magic in the Northern Tradition" (Aquarian Press, an excellent book I think...) makes some very interesting comments regarding the Northern European martial art "styles" of Bear, Wolf, and Boar. BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1152] (PRIVATE) From: K.c. Hunter Date: 04-04-90 To: James Crowley Time: 19:17 Subject: Prochoice pagans EID:bba3 14849a35 Remember me? From yesterday? I'm calling to tell you (and your church) about the anit-choice people from "St. Francis of Assisi" who pray (prey?) on the Women's Health Center at 3525 Sunset Blvd. (1 blk E. of Sunset and Silverlake on the North side) and try to prevent the patients who enter from going in, or from having an abortion (of their own free will). Friday and Saturday-April 13th and 14th-is a special day for Operation Rescue (and therefore a special day for us), but these people are there every Saturday, too. We'd appreciate all pagans to show up and bring *pagan* signs and ritual tools (that *really* bugs the Xians!), and of course holy books to read aloud. Please publish this as general news, and it's okay to use my phone number and my "K.C." name for interested people to call. Also --- Bonnie, let's get together sometime and discuss this "pagan" rally. I'll send the article from Circle Network News about "Lady Liberty" ---- you'll really like it. --- QM v1.00 * Origin: Cassandra-News * 818-899-3687 (1:102/922.0) Message Number: [1153] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-05-90 To: All Time: 10:58 Subject: Tara and the Goddess I was led to the craft via an experience linking the enrgies of the Tantric White Tara with the lunar energies. However I have been having very little success in documenting this through any other method other than my personal experience. Does anyone else have any information on this? I seem to be stuck in trying to find any other link. I discovered the link when working with the White Tara mantrum under a full moon and the enrgies multiplied in an unbelievable manner. I then started investigating and working with western magical material that was wicca based, with not a little success. However I am still very aware of the other energies and trying to find a way to integrate the two. You might ask "why try to integrate the two?" My answer would be that I had found the tantric magical processes too isolated from the earth and my western background. I "resonate" much more readily with the workings of WICCA (as I understand it), and yet there is a considerable energy available from this other source that I feel I need to integrate. Perhaps some of the ceremonial types here might have some ideas or background on this? B*B and Namaste -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1154] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-05-90 To: Bill Moore Time: 21:39 Subject: "Dan and Deanna" Advocate Newsletter EID:b7b2 1485ace4 I, for one, am dissappointed. They forgot to say that people practicing Witchcraft eat small children. Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1155] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-05-90 To: Randy Alexander Time: 21:40 Subject: Pagan Police Officers and others... SeeAalso: 1216 EID:b7b2 1485ad11 I can't say anything about police departments, but I can say something about the military. My husband is a solitary--while he was in boot camp he met a Wiccan and a Druid. They were having a discussion and one of the sergeants walks by and says, "Graham, I know about you. What about you other guys?" (Or something to that effect) When he found out what the other two guys' religious persuasions were, Erik said he walked away kind of amazed, saying,"You guys are EVERYwhere." Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1156] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-05-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 21:44 Subject: Re: To reincarnate or not to reincarnate... Previous Reply: 1141 SeeAalso: 1157 EID:b7b2 1485ad95 I was in such a funk when I wrote that message, but after writing it, I felt sort of relieved. Something else that helped was one of the messages from Paul (please forgive, I don't recall which one, but most likely our moderator) where he said something to the effect of "Enjoy the trip." So I've pretty much stopped worrying--you're right, it is unhealthy. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1157] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-05-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 21:49 Subject: Re: To reincarnate or not to reincarnate... Previous Reply: 1156 SeeAalso: 1177 EID:b7b2 1485ae34 That was a beautiful scene that you shared with me. I've never done anything quite like what you've described...are you sure I won't attract anything that I really rather wouldn't? I just wrote a message to Silver Claw explaining how after I wrote that rambling piece, I felt relieved and have decided to take to heart the opinion "Enjoy the trip" and not worry so much about what comes after. I will give what you told me about a try...is there a special signifigance to the blue crescent, or is that just something that "works for you"? Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1158] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-05-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 21:59 Subject: Re: International Wicca? SeeAalso: 1165 EID:b7b2 1485af70 Well, hey-I'll become a BBS so that I can continue to get Wicca. I'll volunteer my husband's computer...He has a 9600 baud modem so I assume that that would help things along. Just in case Erik actually agrees to this (and if I kept this part-time and SHARED the computer, I don't see why he wouldn't) what does one need to do? Bright blessings, Tiffany Why don't I see messages from Australia anymore? --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1159] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-05-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 22:04 Subject: Fresh VI-Mannheim Steamroller EID:b7b2 1485b095 Erik has a bunch of Mannheim CDs (although unfortunately no CD player, yet). I've heard "Come Home to the Sea" and seen the video and I'm in love with both. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1160] From: Artemis Lupa Date: 04-04-90 To: Paul Hume Time: 17:24 Subject: Re: Greek Orthodox X-tian Previous Reply: 1095 SeeAalso: 1198 MSGID: 1:280/901 4211604e > Note #1 (headgames) is correct. On several points. > Yo, Apple - are you getting censorious on me?) > This is the same line of free advice (and worth every > penny, let me > assure you) I'd roll out if this subject came up at a > party (after > the second whiskey sour). Since I am freshly back > from a gaming/SF > convention, my psyche is attuned to the same high > level of sensitivity > as it would be after the eucharist of blended, lemon > juice, and bitters, so you can trust that! Paul, you're so fun when you're altered. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1161] From: Artemis Lupa Date: 04-04-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 21:35 Subject: Re: Wolves In Ritual Previous Reply: 1151 SeeAalso: 4290 MSGID: 1:280/901 42156be8 > ever seen a hunt pack work cooperativly in the > chase/cull/kill ???? - or their pack "day care" system > for the young ???? or a single animal dancing with > the falling leaves or "stalking" mice/other small > mammels ???? > they are a perfect blend of unique individuality and > tribe ... quite able to exist as individuals, but able > to blend together as a single unit/group-mind when > necessary. is it any wonder why those of us of celtic > descent seem to relate so well to them as totem > animals? As it relates to cat vs. dog people: (From a person owned by a dog 1958-1969, by cats, assorted, 1984-present; totem animal wolf) Perhaps it would be worth mentioning that there seems to be a wider range of personality types among dogs than among cats, and also that dogs' natural pack instincts and behavior have been somewhat subverted by human interaction. Wolves seem to have the best of both. Personal observation. I could be wrong. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1162] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-05-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 11:19 Subject: FERTILITY SeeAalso: 1163 MSGID: 1:280/311.2 261b7e92 Ellen, It just occurred to me that in the Video "The Occult Experience"; an Austrailian Wiccan group does a Great Rite ritual for (I think) just the purpose your sister has in mind. I can't really speak for the quality or accuracy of it, or the video as a whole; except to note that it's of interest to any modern occultist; but you or she might check into it for ritual ideas. --- via Quickpoint XRS 3.2+ (286) * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City, Missouri (Quick 1:280/311.2) Message Number: [1163] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-05-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 11:21 Subject: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1162 SeeAalso: 1164 MSGID: 1:280/311.2 261b7f75 In a message to Jonathan Hutchins <28 Mar 90 20:37:00> Ellen Wilson wrote: EW> Um, I have also recently heard that the male taking a cold bath for EW> half an hour before hand will dramaticlly increase sperm count, From my understanding of the process, I'd say that would be less likely to work than the reverse; ie a hot bath would kill the buggers, but it takes a while to grow new ones. I'd think attention to keeping the temperature of the scrotum low for a few days would be more productive. EW> also that a woman born in a particular moon phase will have trouble EW> conceiving in another. Also that moon to pluto aspects, indicate EW> stillbirths. Although, upon examining EW> her chart at the time of one childs EW> stillbirth, there was a stressful moon/pluto aspect present. There are also indicators for stillbirth in palmistry. Certainly, with a work this important, attention to all possible factors and correspondences is worthwhile. --- via Quickpoint XRS 3.2+ (286) * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City, Missouri (Quick 1:280/311.2) Message Number: [1164] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-05-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 11:25 Subject: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1163 MSGID: 1:280/311.2 261b803b In a message to Jonathan Hutchins <28 Mar 90 20:47:00> Ellen Wilson wrote: EW> ... since their infertility doctor sort've forced nature to get EW> the pregancies going before. Well, in a way that's good, because it means the problem pre-dates the miscarriages and is therefore less likely to be a matter of physical damage. Boy, I would certainly want to know a good bit about the abundance and viability of sperm and egg in such a situation. Did the doctors tell them anything, or did they keep it to themselves? EW> Personally, I feel adoption is the way to go. Y'know, I've heard it's one of the surest ways to get pregnant! (Thanks to Murphy's law.) --- via Quickpoint XRS 3.2+ (286) * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City, Missouri (Quick 1:280/311.2) Message Number: [1165] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-06-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 07:43 Subject: Re: International Wicca? Previous Reply: 1158 SeeAalso: 1290 In a message to Paul Seymour <04-05-90 21:59> Tiffany Hall-graham wrote: > Well, hey-I'll become a BBS so that I can continue to get > Wicca. I'll volunteer my husband's computer...He has a > 9600 baud modem so I assume that that would help things > along. Just in case Erik actually agrees to this (and if I > kept this part-time and SHARED the computer, I don't see > why he wouldn't) what does one need to do? I would suggest you discuss this with Amergin O'Kai on 104/11 (Dragonfriends BBS), since he has experience with BBS''ing and the pagan community in germany. I will cooperate in any way I can! > Why don't I see messages from Australia anymore? I guess it got too expensive for them, but Lance is no longer polling me, though he does log on as a user about once a month. B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1177] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-06-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 16:52 Subject: Re: To reincarnate or not to reincarnate... Previous Reply: 1157 SeeAalso: 1178 Its not "death" I fear. I always view death as a restful, peaceful thing. Its destruction I fear. I don't want to be turned off like my computer. I think that damnation or whatever you want to call it might even be better than that. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1178] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-06-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 17:07 Subject: Re: To reincarnate or not to reincarnate... Previous Reply: 1177 SeeAalso: 1183 Everybody's entitled to get really bummed out every once in a while. Helps get all those bad feelings out. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1181] From: Warren Stott Date: 04-04-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 21:36 Subject: Hows zat? EID:8c01 1484ac80 Here we are... Spring. Bikes. No money. Shit. Sounds like my work is cut out for me. Build the effigy scooter, burn the candles, raise a little, drum a little, emote a little. Wait, that would probably bring on a little, like, KZ50 or something... How ye be? What road trips, fests, etc? Facts and dates, dogbreath. We got to be a plannin'! Been real busy and the matrix has fallen down the priority list. Hope get back in here more now. Blessed Be, Wolf. Warren --- msged 1.99S ZTC * Origin: Technical Publications Consulting (1:104/610.7) Message Number: [1182] From: Mark Ad Date: 04-06-90 To: Randy Alexander Time: 18:46 Subject: Re: PHUNNY PHONE CALLS SeeAalso: 1253 There are quite a few police type people that are in the Craft. I am an ex-cop myself. However we don't advertise, it doesn't look too good on one's personel file. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [1183] From: The Demigod Date: 04-06-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 18:56 Subject: Re: To reincarnate or not to reincarnate... Previous Reply: 1178 SeeAalso: 1184 EID:d098 1486971d Thinking about death at the age of 17 is not as uncommon as all that...(a college professor that taught a great poetry workshop once noted that his hs workshop students always wrote poems on two subjects predominantly...Love and death. His theory was that those were the two things that puzzled sensitive young people (well they were interested in POETRY, remember! :) the most!). BB! John.... --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1184] From: Nightwind Date: 04-06-90 To: Mike Nichols Time: 07:59 Subject: Re: To reincarnate or not to reincarnate... Previous Reply: 1183 SeeAalso: 1217 EID:f55c 14863f73 Personally, I favor the Western view of ongoing recycling. The idea of reaching the end of the line, in whatever form it may be, is not something that I can relate to. I'd like to think that the spark that is *me* will continue to be around for a good long time. 'Course, there are days when I'd just as soon be done with the whole lot. (Hmm....looks like it's time for some heavy meditations.) Blessed Be! Nightwind --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [1185] From: Nightwind Date: 04-06-90 To: Mike Nichols Time: 08:05 Subject: Re: healing EID:ad0d 148640af Can you give me a general (or specific) location where Scott is in the hospital? I know that I can direct energies more effectively if I have at least a direction on which to focus. B*B Nightwind --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [1186] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-05-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 14:59 Subject: TopiCop MSGID: 1:280/901 428ef59c > 3) Shouldn't this be on Mundane? Or is that a "kiss > of death" to a thread here? Can everyone get Mundane? Mundane is part of The MAGICKNET Trio, which was deliberately split to allow such diversion. It's distribution topology is a little different; and it's meant as a place for digression specificly from MAGIC, so WICCA has to muddle on it's own. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1187] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-05-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 15:05 Subject: Greek Orthodox X-tian MSGID: 1:280/901 428f04c4 > Butchen up, girl! The man is playing head games. You are zonk-on right there, Moon. Grade "A" deep space traveler there! > Respect his religion ... And take it with a large grain of salt. > 3) What do people feel about the accusation that we > "open doors" and do not close them? And that a > Christian Sect is "fixing" things. This is a real comon mystic trip for those who need to justify their Gread Magickal Workings in any tradition. Lyn Abbey's one occult fiction book (I can never remember titles when I want to, and the Library's still in boxes) dealt with it quite enjoyably. Yes, sloppy magic abounds in neo-paganism, but usually those who are too sloppy to close a gate are too clumsu to open it in the first place. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1188] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-05-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 15:13 Subject: Re: FERTILITY SeeAalso: 1194 MSGID: 1:280/901 428f2afd > Ok fellows, don't confuse me! Is it boxers or jockeys, > or maybe I'll > just go ask some clerk at the local KMart and really > make their day. Hmmm. You're welcome to drop by if you need an illustration, but I flubbed it: It's "Jockey's" your Bro'-in-law wants to avoid: The close fit, and the way they tuck the testicles against the body, tends to keep them at body temperature, which is what the scrotum was designed to avoid. The spermatozoa are designed to go active when they reach the vagina and the normal body temperature there, I guess they sort of wear themselves out trying to fertilise each other if you keem 'em too warm. Mind you, I'm no real expert on the biology of it; and I know it's no sure thing. Just one more small factor. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1189] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-05-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 15:14 Subject: Beasties MSGID: 1:280/901 428f3d69 > best one i was ever at .... half way through a horse > came crashing out of the woods, ran through the > circle, and back into the woods Just what or who were you invoking at the time? --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1190] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-05-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 15:20 Subject: The Big "D" MSGID: 1:280/901 428f4b3a The way I see it, death is _NOT_ a contrast or an antithesis to life. It is an inextricable part of the whole. And there is no reason for it not to happen at any given time, so working it out at 21 is not untimely. I guess I'm comfortable leaving the "what happens then" question for the moment when I will have real data on it; I figure that the best I can do is 100% effort on this world, and deal with the next when I have some reliable information on it. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1191] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-05-90 To: Randy Niere Time: 15:23 Subject: Re: PANGUR BAN SeeAalso: 1365 MSGID: 1:280/901 428f5eab > Laughing so hard I spilled my Kumiss... You DRINK that stuff? I've never gotten up the guts (interesting that that phrase should turn so) to drink what I've made. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1192] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-05-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 15:28 Subject: Re: WOLVES IN RITUAL Previous Reply: 1148 SeeAalso: 4294 MSGID: 1:280/901 428f74dc > I feel the same > way in reverse; I'd go nuts without a few hours a day > by myself to sort my thoughts out. Then there are those people who _cnanot_ be alone; they must have the radio or television on if it even _looks_ like they are by themselves for more than a moment. Sometimes I wonder what the thoughts they are so afraid to hear might be? --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1193] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-06-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 10:15 Subject: Re: continued SeeAalso: 1255 MSGID: 1:280/901 430a3f5c > Unfortunately I keep on using up all of > bookshelf space that's why I have to put so many of my > books in my nightstand or just about anywhere else. I > really have to get some more space. By definition, you will allways have slightly more books than you have space to store them neatly. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1194] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-06-90 To: Dave Aronson Time: 11:14 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1188 SeeAalso: 1199 MSGID: 1:280/901 430b3afc > > If ya REALLY wanna "let those doolies swing in the > breeze", don't wear boxers... or pants.... Yeah, be a man, wear a kilt! --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1195] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-06-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 11:17 Subject: Re: child ethics Previous Reply: 1101 SeeAalso: 1264 MSGID: 1:280/901 430b40d0 > My mother is really not the biggest problem its really > my father. He's been a police officer all his life so > consequently the only contact he's ever had with > magical religions are those fanatics who like to > sacrifice animals and stuff. Maybe Rowan and CWR could help. They do a major counterpropaganda effort to enlighten people about the true nature of alternate religions. If your dad's an officer, and he thinks all Witches are bad, it would benefit us all to enlighten him, and your name need not enter the picture. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1196] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-06-90 To: Sysop Jack&jill Time: 11:25 Subject: Connections MSGID: 1:280/901 430b6742 > CARBON COPY FROM ATLANTA CONNECTION, GA. > ************************* > posted or > upload to atlanta connection, RANA of Gor> > * Origin: Long Island Connection - Home of WICCA in > NY (2600/301) What's the deal, is there a hole in the net somewhere? Seems like there should be a more direct link than N.Y. to Atlanta. BTW: What's that "2600/" origin? --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1197] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-06-90 To: Sysop Jack&jill Time: 11:29 Subject: Tiffany MSGID: 1:280/901 430b703b > CARBON COPY FROM ATLANTA CONNECTION, GA. > *WICCA* > 03/14/90 15:21:00 > From: TIFFANY HALL-GRAHAM > Subj: TO THOSE IN THE CRAFT WITH CHILDREN.. > I was wondering how you can incorporate your children > into rituals, or if you're even supposed too. I've been in one where a young boy played the Sun King for Solstice. Worked pretty well. There were a number of children in the circle, all with some experience in such stuff, and while we each lighted a candle, they did the same. That group frequently does something like that; a circle of children within the adults. Letting them pass their own "cakes and grapejuice" is a little easier too; it saves trying to bend and stoop in a crowded room. We're still working on getting some comments from these folks on line. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1198] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-06-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 11:32 Subject: Re: Greek Orthodox X-tian Previous Reply: 1160 SeeAalso: 1200 MSGID: 1:280/901 430b84cf > I know how you feel, Moon. My last boyfriend was > Greek Orthodox. So, can you confirm any of the wierd stuff about Greek Orthodox mysticism; or was it just a matter of him not being able to associate with a pagan? --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1199] From: Marilyn Evans Date: 04-06-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 18:52 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1194 SeeAalso: 1242 MSGID: 1:280/901 4312ab79 Enough of this misinformation! Heat does have an adverse effect on sperm production, but in India, where there is little trouble with infertility, men tend to wear their "loins" tightly wrapped in a loin cloth with no hanging in the breeze. The problem of complete infertility comes from extreme heat in which the seminal vesicles fuse, and sterility ensues. Hence the recommendation that young men past puberty who contract mumps should have the scrotum packed in ice or face infertility. If you sister (friend? Can't remember) required both invitro fertilization (or was it artificial insemination by her husbands stored up sperm?) and still miscarried twice, she may be producing antibodies to her husbands antigens. When the fetus begins to express the father compliment of antigens she may reject it as she would a kidney transplant. Other possibilities are that her embryos simply aren't viable -- the most common cause of spontaneous abortion. If the first (above) she may be able to be inseminated by and unrelated male's sperm. If the second, a surrogate mother impregnated with her husbands sperm may be possible. I'd adopt, myself. Sorry, it ain't magic -- it's science. But that's what I do. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1200] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-07-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 10:24 Subject: Re: Greek Orthodox X-tian Previous Reply: 1198 In a message to Moon Puppy <04-05-90 15:05> Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > Yes, sloppy magic abounds in neo-paganism, but usually > those who are too sloppy to close a gate are too clumsy to > open it in the first place. I LIKE it! Very quotable. B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1201] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-07-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 10:35 Subject: Re: Beasties SeeAalso: 1220 In a message to Blackwolf <04-05-90 15:14> Jonathan Hutchins wrote: >BW> best one i was ever at .... half way through a horse >BW> came crashing out of the woods, ran through the >BW> circle, and back into the woods Hmmm, according to some recent archaeological work done on the cave art in the inner cave at Lascaux, the hores was the non-anthropomorphic symbol for the Goddess for cro-magnon man from about 17,000 - 10,000 B.C.E. JH>Just what or who were you invoking at the time? Where's your roots boy? (GRIN) B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1202] From: Hugh Read Date: 04-06-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 07:24 Subject: Re: Reincarnation Previous Reply: 1119 SeeAalso: 1207 EID:d649 14863b0f You're being a little picky. I depends on how broad your interests are as to whether the film is of any use or value to someone in the craft. I found it an interesting, off-beat film about re-incarnation. It was of interest to me. I wanted to share my interest with others who may or may not believe in and who may or may not have an interest in reincarnation...and who may or may not have an interest in off-beat films. --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1203] From: Fr. Ens Date: 04-06-90 To: Paul Hume Time: 07:32 Subject: Re: 8 come 11 Previous Reply: 1150 SeeAalso: 1204 EID:d649 14863c10 There can be no arguement about these things. It is personal. Let me quote the source I like best on Cheth. This is from Fabre d'Olivet, The Hebrew Tongue Restored: "This character can be considered under the double relation of vowel or consonant. As vocal sound it is the symbol of elementary existence and represents the principle of vital aspiration: as consonant it belongs to the gutteral sound and represents th field of man, his labour, which demands on his part any effort, care or fatigue. As grammatical sign it holds an intermediary rank between (He), life, absolute existence, and (Caph), life, realtive and assimilated existence. It (Cheth) presents thus, the image of a sort of equilibrium and equality, and is attached to ideas of effort, labour, and of normal legislative action. Its arithmetical number is 8." I don't know enough Hebrew to understand what d'Olivet means by his comments on Cheth being a vowel and a consonant. I included that so that everything he said would be included. I repeat what I believe I have said here. I believe the reason for the exchange of Justice and Strength was to overlook the Justice aspect of Yod-He-Vav-He which is 26 reducing to 8...not only overlook, but to obscure the Justice aspect of Tetragrammeton...and to replace the concept of Justice with that of Strength. I suspect it was an "inspiration" when the idea of the switch lept into the mind or minds of those who effected the switch. Caph (the eleventh letter) does not adapt as easily, unless the idea of the cupped hand be aplied to the gentle hands on the Lion's mouth be considered as relating to meaning of the letter itself. I prefer the Marsailles deck attributions given by Eliphaz Levi. I am not prepared to argue them. When I first looked at Aleph spelled out in the Levi system with Tarot Trumps, I almost wept with relief at having discovered a gentler way. I have experienced, in spades, the harsh arrogance of the Golden Dawn. I believe this is in part caused by the changes made in the Tarot attributions to the Hebrew letters and to the Tree. --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1204] From: Hugh Read Date: 04-06-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 07:53 Subject: Re: 8 come 11 Previous Reply: 1203 EID:d649 14863eaf As I just said in my last post, to each his/her own. I feel that systems appeal to different temperments in different ways. To make one absolutely correct is nonsense. It is not exactly whatever works is right...and yet it is. --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1205] From: Fr. Ens Date: 04-06-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 07:57 Subject: Re: Tara and the Goddess SeeAalso: 1208 EID:d649 14863f25 Did you recieve the White Tara initiation from the Tibetans. The experience you had at the Full Moon may have been not unique to White Tara, but to the fact that energies run high at the Full Moon. I have had a little experience with Tantric Buddhism and feel it, or Shaivite Tanticism, or both have a great deal to do with Wicca. This is only intuition, though. I have recieved a minor Green Tara initiation. My personal intuition is that Buddhism comes out of the Hindu Tara sect. Tara, according to my sources is a wrathful Hindu diety. I asked a Rinpoche if Tara were a goddess. He smiled a little and said, Yes, that Tara is consider the Mother of the Buddhas. Interesting that he said she is a goddess in a religion that eskews deities. (My source for the comments on the Hindu Tara is The Gods of India, Hindu Polytheism, by Alain Danielou which in a large paperback version published by Inner Tradions, originally published in a Bollingen edition. It is a wonder source book. I was attracted to it by the longish chapter that includes a number of mantrams.) --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1206] From: Ryan Alexander Date: 04-06-90 To: Joseph Teller Time: 23:22 Subject: Re: File Exchange Offer EID:6b42 1486bad3 I'm interested, could you give more info on how I am to get these files to you, and in what format? RNA --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1207] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-07-90 To: Hugh Read Time: 12:08 Subject: Re: Reincarnation Previous Reply: 1202 SeeAalso: 1262 In a message to Paul Seymour <04-06-90 07:24> Hugh Read wrote: > You're being a little picky. I depends on how broad your > interests are as to whether the film is of any use or value > to someone in the craft. > I found it an interesting, off-beat film about > re-incarnation. > It was of interest to me. I wanted to share my interest > with others who may or may not believe in and who may or > may not have an interest in reincarnation...and who may or > may not have an interest in off-beat films. O.K., Sorry about being a little too picky. I wont worry too much if you don't, O.K.? --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1208] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-07-90 To: Fr. Ens Time: 13:24 Subject: Re: Tara and the Goddess Previous Reply: 1205 SeeAalso: 1263 In a message to Paul Seymour <04-06-90 07:57> Fr. Ens wrote: > Did you recieve the White Tara initiation from the Tibetans. I received my initiation in a small Tantric Drugpa Lamasery about 6 KM. from Udorn, Thailand. > The experience you had at the Full Moon may have been not unique to > White Tara, but to the fact that energies run high at the Full Moon. I agree that energie "run high" at the Full Moon, however I was able to VISIBLY "generate" White Tara at the 1/2 way point through the first set of 108 repetitions of the mantrum. Normally it took 3-5 sets to generate the energy, with no visible manifestations. Janet and Stewart Farrar in "The Witches Goddess" relate Tara as the daughter of the Moon God in Ancient Hindu tardition, but the reference is very sketchy. I also have been able to raise and work with Goddess energies in co-operation with the Lunar cycles. > I have had a little experience with Tantric Buddhism and > feel it, or Shaivite Tanticism, or both have a great deal > to do with Wicca. This is only intuition, though. I have the same intuition and now some experience to strengthen it. > I have recieved a minor Green Tara initiation. My > personal intuition is that Buddhism comes out of the Hindu > Tara sect. Tara, according to my sources is a wrathful > Hindu diety. I asked a Rinpoche if Tara were a goddess. > He smiled a little and said, Yes, that Tara is consider the > Mother of the Buddhas. Interesting that he said she is a > goddess in a religion that eskews deities. Tibetan Tantra recognizes 21 Taras. I would be interested in a comparison between the Indian Green Tara and the Tibetan Basudaranni, who is green. I have done some work with th Basudaranni, but the emphasis has been on White Tara. White Tara and Basudaranni are not wrathful at all, and probably the two most approachable by the western mind set. Tantric Buddhism as practiced in Tibet falls into both categories as a shamanic magical tradition and as a religion, but the two are kept pretty separate by most. Thanks for the reply. Perhaps we can share some more information sometime. I am oathbound on magical techniques/workings only, and will share my limited knowledge on the philosophical aspects as desired. B*B and Namaste -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1209] From: Russ Anderson Date: 04-07-90 To: all Time: 16:42 Subject: Dragonfest EID:68af 14878540 The following message is the official announcement of Dragonfest '90. It is presented here as your official invitation. I've agreed to act as liason between the committee and the network. If you wish me to pass information back to the committee, I can be reached by netmail at 104/11. B*B Dragonfriend (Russ) Dragonfest 1990 Announcement Since the full moon in August is early this year, the Festival will be August 2 - August 6, and therefore the theme will be: Lughnasadh - Sacrificing for Renewal The theme will be addressed on many levels: Personal - what will I let go of to make room for what I want? Community - what can we do without to have security and trust? Humanity - what must we release to feel like one family? Planet Earth - how much inconvenience will we accept to take care of our home? If you are interested in leading a workshop, plan it now and contact us soon. There will be several changes you may need to be aware of: * A price increase - we're growing up and need a bigger site, equipment, etc., all of which cost at least a little money * Assigned camping areas - to reduce overcrowding here and empty spaces there. To be sure to camp together you must register together or both parties must request it. * Smaller and less central skyclad areas, to be filled on a first paid/ first reserved basis. This is for nudists, not observers. * A work requirement again. The work must get done for us to have the wonderful Festival we all want, and working together is the best way in the world to make friends and feel part of things. * A parental work requirement - for every child (age 2+) who attends, a parent or other adult must spend at least 2 hours staffing the Children's Festival. What will not change: our religious focus, fellowship (the Community Center will be back), music, rituals, workshops, dancing, drumming, and the change to devote 4 whole days - noon Thursday to noon Monday - to sharing our spiritual paths with each other and our gods. Save your pennies to register early, as we expect to fill up ahead of time! Registration packets will be mailed by Beltane. If you receive a printed copy of this announcement in the next week or two you are already on our mailing list and will automatically receive registration information. Otherwise you can contact Russ to be put on the mailing list, or write to: Dragonfest of Colorado, Inc, PO Box 6927, Denver CO 80206 Note to network participants: Russ Anderson is the official Magicknet online information source and liaison for Dragonfest. (Also Rumor Control). Check with him with any questions - he can refer them to the committee for official answers. Also, this year's site is not public information; if you register and receive a map packet, please do not discuss on Magicknet anything about the location other than it being in the Colorado mountains. Ask via netmail if you have any questions. --- ZMailO 1.10 - Gamma X * Origin: Dragonfriend's Point (1:104/11.5) Message Number: [1210] From: Bill Moore Date: 04-07-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 09:15 Subject: Re: "Dan and Deanna" Advocate Newsletter SeeAalso: 1291 In a message to Bill Moore <04-05-90 21:39> Tiffany Hall-graham wrote: TH>< I, for one, am dissappointed. They forgot to say that TH>< Tiffany TH>< Oh good grief, I don't even say that in jest, try thsat on Cult Watch and you have just proven the christian communitys worst fears. Altho prepared with A-1 Sauce. Hmmmmm --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [1211] From: the Bard Date: 04-06-90 To: Thomas Frost Time: 07:46 Subject: Re: gateway software SeeAalso: 1218 EID:b7b2 14863dcf FREQ this BBS for UFG_103.LZH for the OPUS/USENET gateway program. --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1212] From: Bjorn Meaddranker Date: 04-06-90 To: Simon Waters Time: 22:50 Subject: Re: ANCESTOR WORSHIP Previous Reply: 1115 EID:e02e 1486b656 > or (taken from local quote file): > > No one is so old he cannot learn or so young he cannot > teach. > -ROWAN MOONSTONE > I'm afraid I gotta disagree with Rowan here (at least a little) after they been dead and buried a couple of generations it seems like they got a bit o' trouble learnen..... Bjorn Meaddranker --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1213] From: Gerald Bliss Date: 04-07-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 20:06 Subject: Re: Zodiac question Yes, Tiff, Carlin was on here for a while. She still pokes her nose in every couple of weeks, but probably hasn't left a message for a while. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [1214] From: Gerald Bliss Date: 04-07-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 20:08 Subject: Re: How goes? SeeAalso: 1292 Well, don't just sit there, dial the number. Carlin and I will be happy to talk with you. Things are starting to look up finally. We're both working, and I have an offer of a permanent job that I WANT. We are planning to be wed next Candlemas; I will extend an open invitation in this echo once we are closer to the event and have a better idea of what we intend to do. BTW, if there are glitches in this message, the main reason is that my phone line to Crystal Cave is not the best...they run it through the swamp... --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [1215] From: Randy Alexander Date: 04-06-90 To: Fr. Ens Time: 23:36 Subject: Reincarnation Previous Reply: 1116 * Replying to a message originally to All FE> Just saw a reincarnation drama on VCR, The Reincarnation of FE> Peter Proud. {Stuff Deleted to save on redundancy} FE> spiritual, a little gross, but now without some kind of FE> wierd message...like sex sells movies (I doubt the film FE> grossed a whole hell of a lot). It's surprising how much play a movie like that gets, it's like the Peter Fonda movie "Shout at the Devil", which is extreemly bad and very poor publicity for any non-xtian peoples. Actually I viewed '...Peter Proud' as the usual horror movie with a weird twist... Randy --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [1216] From: Randy Alexander Date: 04-07-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 02:28 Subject: Pagan Police Officers and others... Previous Reply: 1155 .... TH> solitary--while he was in boot camp he met a Wiccan and a TH> Druid. They were having a discussion and one of the TH> sergeants walks by and says, "Graham, I know about you. .... Doesn't sound like the boot camp I went to. Kinda reminds me of 'Baby Blue Marine' .... TH> saying,"You guys are EVERYwhere." Yep! That we be! --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [1217] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-07-90 To: Mike Nichols Time: 16:28 Subject: Re: To reincarnate or not to reincarnate... Previous Reply: 1184 SeeAalso: 1254 EID:d098 14878386 Good point! While the Eastern schools of religion have my agreement in saying that the mundane world is one of falseness and illusion, I see no reason that you have to be miserable because of this; life is what you make of it, and existance can be as dreadful or wonderful as you choose. As far as the final destination of the soul, I believe that eventually we do "step off" the wheel of life, after many incarnations, but in the meantime, we should be more concerned with making the world a better place than making a mad dash for nirvana, ignoring the rest of our surroundings. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1218] From: Chuck Haynes Date: 04-08-90 To: the Bard Time: 18:16 Subject: Re: gateway software Previous Reply: 1211 MSGID: 1:308/60 44123f2e > > FREQ this BBS for UFG_103.LZH for the OPUS/USENET gateway > program. Or he can FREQ this BBS (HST 14.4) using the magic name ufg or he can freq ufg_102.zip (a little smaller than the lzh ver.) BTW Thanks for the file! --- FD 1.99c * Origin: Casa De La Luz, Alamogordo, NM. (505) 437-8267 *HST* 14.4 (1:308/60) Message Number: [1219] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-09-90 To: Warren Stott Time: 18:48 Subject: Re: Hows zat? EID:c6f4 1489960a well spring is sprung somewhat askew - trying to head off open war with a neighbor, but arrival of the new ride should nip that in the bud (due in about two weeks .... went down to look at it yesterday, all the new meatl is one, but still nude (someday i want to take bare metal and simply shoot 16-20 coats of clear laquer over it ...). so far the pagan itenerary is Heartland (via truck ... bike will be too new to chance a road trip of that length until engine broken in a bit more) .... and of course Dragonfest, probably on bike as i have lot's of interest from the local CMA (Council of Magical Arts) folks that i can barter gas for hauling of gear .... anyway, hope to have a trailer by then. if any of your folk head down this way, they are more than welcome to crash here at the Barracks .... and guided tours offered of local clubs, parks, lakes, ..... bw - crazed but not insane (though some would argue that $13.5K for a motorcycle constitutes grounds for a trip the hotel with the padded rooms and those nifty jackets with the long sleeves) ..... it's my allowed insanity for this decade - as i allow one major deveation from reality each ten years ..... have also been doing lots of metal lately, mainly bronze and silver (have located several local bronze founadries and a jeweler who can cast stuff for me .... saves me the $$$$'s of getting the equipment right now. mainly have been learning how to work wax (that is encased in a silicon shell, burned out, and cast) .... great fun, but half my refrigerator is dedicated to wax storage and work in progress. how's about doing me a favor ... i've heard that there is a company in Denver that handles bronze sheet stock - could you do a scan of the phone book and see if you could locate an address/phone number? ... have several folk here willing to coop on orders if i can locate a source. --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [1220] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-09-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 19:01 Subject: Re: Beasties Previous Reply: 1201 EID:c6f4 14899838 re: horses in circle .... was many Mabon's ago and memory dosn't remember the particulars ... do remember getting dumped out of my hammock by a cow that blundered into me during the night ... bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [1234] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-09-90 To: Tiffany Hall-Graham Time: 20:34 Subject: Re: Fresh VI-Mannheim Steamroller TH> player, yet). I've heard "Come Home to the Sea" and seen the TH> video and I'm in love with both. I have not had the pleasure of seeing the video, but the music itself seems to paint a vivid enough picture for me. In Light, Life and Love, Blessed Be! Aga Windwalker --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [1235] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-09-90 To: Simon Waters Time: 20:37 Subject: Re: Phunny Phone Calls Previous Reply: 1144 AW>> HONEST! They really do! A WHOLE busload of [old people] will go AW>> ahead and come into town. THEY NEVER LEAVE..... SW> SW> they get taken along on the UFO that comes to pick up the SW> cocoons.... True enough. Actually, we have discovered what becomes of old people in the city. There is this little graveyard in the center of town, and in there, there are some AWFULLY brand new looking tombstones...... -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [1236] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-09-90 To: All Out There!!! Time: 20:45 Subject: HELP!!! SeeAalso: 1315 Ok, enough is enough! I can't shave, cuz my shaving cream is made by a company that tests on animals! After three weeks, I finally found a company that makes natural shampoos and conditioners and non-aerosol hair sprays and also does not test on animals and uses bio-degradable containers. What I want to know is this; for Earth Day, my family and I would like to help make a change by dropping all of the products in our house that are harmful to the environment, or harmful to animals or the like. What I would like to know is what kind of toothpaste/shaving cream/ soap is out there that would help us out? We would love nothing better than to write a letter to these companies that test on animals and tell them that for Earth Day we are boycotting their product until such time as they see fit to accept their responsibility toward the environment. Also, I would like to ask if anyone out there has any information on an organization called "Habitat for Humanity". Finally, is there anyone out there who has a text file or who can recommend a book that tells you how to make oils/extracts/incense? Thank You! -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [1242] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-10-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 18:28 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1199 SeeAalso: 1243 I completely agree. At last word they have decided to practice meditation techniques more extensively to try and come to grips with their emotions and the entire situation as a whole, and also to begin regular exercising in order to be as healthly and whole inside and out. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [1243] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-10-90 To: Dave Aronson Time: 18:29 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1242 SeeAalso: 1244 Ha, good idea. Let 'em wear kilts. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [1244] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-10-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 18:34 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1243 SeeAalso: 1245 Would you by any chance know the palmistry indicators for stillbirth? --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [1245] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-10-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 18:37 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1244 SeeAalso: 1246 Actually, my sis and her hubbie remain sort of silent on sperm numbers other then saying the sperm were at a normal level, and the husband thought it somewhat of a very embarassing experience having to produce in a jar and carry it around. No doubt should the day arrive they absolutely swear never to have a child-wa la! --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [1246] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-10-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 18:40 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1245 SeeAalso: 1247 Um, considering you're calling on a Kansas line I probably won't be stopping by soon to examine your shorts, sorry! I didn't know sperm would try to fertilize each others (thats men for you ladies), but thats very interesting. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [1247] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-10-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 18:42 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1246 SeeAalso: 1248 Kilts are the spring fashion craze I hear over in Paris... --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [1248] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-10-90 To: Marilyn Evans Time: 18:47 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1247 SeeAalso: 1256 Sis had artificial insemination with hubbies sperm. I don't believe any meds ever mentioned there could be an antibody effect going on, but I certainly am going to bring this up to her. And anyway, science misunderstood has always been "magic" to the natives! Who's to say someday todays magic won't be taught in schools as science experiments. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [1253] From: Randy Alexander Date: 04-08-90 To: Mark Ad Time: 15:43 Subject: Re: PHUNNY PHONE CALLS Previous Reply: 1182 MA> There are quite a few police type people that are in the MA> Craft. I am an ex-cop myself. However we don't advertise, MA> it doesn't look too good on one's personel file. Yes, I'll bet! Great! I wish they all were! Randy --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [1254] From: Mike Nichols Date: 04-09-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 22:16 Subject: Re: To reincarnate or not to reincarnate... Previous Reply: 1217 SeeAalso: 1300 Whether or not one chooses to see the material world as maya, illusion, falsehood, etc., or not, is mainly a matter of personal temperament, I think. The only problem with seeing it as illusion is, in my opinion, that it makes it too easy for people to wash their hands of the responsibility of the stewardship of our planet. I can see from your message that YOU don't feel that way about it, but I think that for many people, the tendency toward that kind of passive attitude is the main danger of the maya approach. But again, the 'truth' or it may be nothing more than a matter of perspective. You know, it's the ol' line about "Some people prefer to see a glass that's half empty. Some people prefer to see a glass that's half full." Me, I prefer to see a glass that's twice as big as it NEEDS to be! :) --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1255] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-08-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 13:42 Subject: Re: continued Previous Reply: 1193 EID:64cf 14886d43 > By definition, you will allways have slightly more books than you > have space to store them neatly. _Slightly_ more books?!? Egad, in my bedroom, I scarcely have room to walk, thanks to large quantities of paper... Nasty habit indeed. -Blessed Buzzings, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1256] From: Simon Waters Date: 04-08-90 To: Marilyn Evans Time: 16:43 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1248 SeeAalso: 1294 EID:5150 1488857b > ME: Sorry, it ain't magic -- it's science. But that's what I do. same thing, more or less... according to clarke. --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1257] From: Dave Aronson Date: 04-08-90 To: Jerome Birnbaum Time: 17:48 Subject: Re: Magickal Materials EID:3ec7 14888e1a JB> For your "workings" pleasure..Order supplies via this Bulletin Board. Not THIS bulletin board, bub, unless you want to sign a legally binding contract with TIDMADT Enterprises! Before you go placing commercial advertisments, better make sure you're familiar with the medium you're using, at least enough that you don't make any any false representations on anyone else's behalf. Until further notice, TIDMADT BBS is *NOT* participating in ANY mail-order business or any other mode of ordering products. (Services, yes... but only those of TIDMADT Enterprises.) --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT 703-370-7054 A Wicca WOC'ing chair! (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1258] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-10-90 To: All Time: 15:48 Subject: The Beginning SeeAalso: 1328 I was wondering, is there a creation legend in Wicca? --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1259] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-10-90 To: Mike Nichols Time: 19:59 Subject: Maya as an excuse... EID:a18d 148a9f6f For any who feel that Maya allows them to wash their hands of the whole mess, well, we are responsible for our own illusions. BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1260] From: David Schaal Date: 04-08-90 To: all Time: 06:05 Subject: Disk Round Robin * Copied from MUNDANE area, 1:282/341.12, on 08 Apr 90 at 06:37 FMPT 12 At Heartland Pagan Festival on Memorial Day Weekend 1989 I make a commitment to get this Disk Round Robin off the silica. I am not going to let an entire year go by with out fulfilling this! I will have something to distribute by Memorial Day 1990! I will be at Heartland and PSG to start distribution going. The Round Robin will consist of several 5.25" 360k IBM format disks. The files contained will be compressed individually or small groups using LHARC. A Master directory of files will be distributed containing filenames, sizes, dates and short descriptions. A program will be included to compare the master directory to a similar local one and report on files that can be added and/or taken from the round robin distribution. This will be a simple program comparing filename.ext and file size only. Participation is open to anyone interested provided that they agree to 1) forward the distribution within a two week period, 2)add to, but not delete from the distribution, 3)not use the distribution for commercial profit, 4)not include known copywrited (with out permission) or oath bound material. The participants must also pay postage to the next destination. Distribution will start at Heartland and PSG. By mail distribution will start after that. After the first round, I will sort out newly included files and distribute those in the next round. New participants may join at the beginning of each round. Complete Collections will be made available at cost. The process will continue as long as participation warrants. Efforts will be made to duplicate this process within Macintosh and other hardware groups. None of this is etched in stone yet (except the date line.) |-) Any comments, suggestions, etc. are encouraged! I still have a list of all who responded to my previous calls of participants, but most did not include a snail mail address. Walk With Wisdom -dave --- Sirius 1.0v+ * Origin: Same Stuff, Different Decade (1:282/341.12) Message Number: [1261] From: Hugh Read Date: 04-08-90 To: Brettski Time: 09:45 Subject: Re: (re) Justice/Strength SeeAalso: 1283 EID:d649 14884dab Did not know there was a Tarot Echo...if there is one it is not available to me. --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1262] From: Hugh Read Date: 04-08-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 09:47 Subject: Re: Reincarnation Previous Reply: 1207 SeeAalso: 4292 EID:d649 14884df6 Thanks, and I will try to remember to be Fr. Ens. When I get hassled, sometimes I forget. --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1263] From: Fr. Ens Date: 04-08-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 09:50 Subject: Re: Tara and the Goddess Previous Reply: 1208 SeeAalso: 1284 EID:d649 14884e42 I have found my contacts with Tibetan Buddhism frustrating...powerful, but frustrating. I dedicate as much attention as I can to Sunnyata and the understanding of what Sunnyata really is, experientially. Using the Hebrew assosciations, Sunnyata involves Fire (sh), Scorpio (nn), possibly Virgo ya, and either Saturn (t) or Leo (t)...it becomes a very heavy duty state of being. I know the word means Void and/or Emptiness. It is not a gentle place and seems from what I can intuit to be more like the concept of Chaos than a place of womb-like security...a place (the womb) that may not be as idylic as the Freudians make it out to be, after all. Shalom is a word of power and violence, too. The imaqe I get is A White-hot Ox-goad plunged into Water...some peace, boy...look at Middle East. --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1264] From: Tracy Gunter Date: 04-10-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 10:20 Subject: Re: child ethics Previous Reply: 1195 SeeAalso: 1295 EID:6b42 148a5289 I am a solitary and I have a daughter 3yrs. old. She has been involved in circles and other forms as well. She is exposed to christian belief systems via. the media and our culture at large, yet the ideas and philosophies she encounters at home are pagan. I have concern about conflicts that this may cause in the future as/if she enters public school. I have no solutions, but wonder about this at times. I feel that I can gently guide her and teach her things that I know, but ultimately, she is the one who must choose her path in life. While the thought of her becoming a christian is not a plesant one, it is a possibility. Myself , I was raised a christian, yet allowed to explore others ways of thought. I choose to reject my christian upbringing and chose anouther path. I feel that I too, must allow Deva (my daughter) the freedom to explore the things she chooses and make decisions her self. She presently is largly responsible for chosing the movies she watches (we don't have a working tv, just a vcr) and I must say, I feel she makes very wise chioces in selecting her programing. --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1272] From: Jerome Birnbaum Date: 04-11-90 To: Dave Aronson Time: 23:47 Subject: Response to AD EID:d75a 148bbde6 First, sorry for the offence. Second, the BB I meant was the BB of the origin of the ad. Third, I wish my ad were commercial. That would mean we were making a profit. That may never come to pass. So I honestly wonder whether or not I am comercial. Fourth, What do you mean by a legally binding contract with TIDMADT? What ever income arrives from this effort is used to continue our group activities. Blessed Be! --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [1282] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-11-90 To: David Schaal Time: 22:49 Subject: Re: Disk Round Robin SeeAalso: 1333 In a message to all <04-08-90 06:05> David Schaal wrote: > The Round Robin will consist of several 5.25" 360k IBM format disks. > The files contained will be compressed individually or small groups using > LHARC. I have 5.37Meg to contribute, but there are two small problems: (1) 360K disks do not hold enough, & (2) They are all in PKZIP 102 format. If you wish me to participate with all of my pagan related files, I will need to use at least 1.2MB floppies with 1.44 preferred. My snail address is: Paul G. Seymour 3232 San Mateo, NE. Suite 23 Albuquerque, NM 87110 Blessed Be -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1283] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-11-90 To: Hugh Read Time: 22:51 Subject: Re: (re) Justice/Strength Previous Reply: 1261 In a message to Brettski <04-08-90 09:45> Hugh Read wrote: > Did not know there was a Tarot Echo...if there is one it > is not available to me. It could be if you can get Scott Raun, your sysop on FireOpal to request it from me. It Originates on The Mountain Oracle, with Greg Skyles as moderator. B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1284] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-11-90 To: Fr. Ens Time: 23:02 Subject: Re: Tara and the Goddess Previous Reply: 1263 SeeAalso: 4295 In a message to Paul Seymour <04-08-90 09:50> Fr. Ens wrote: > heavy duty state of being. I know the word means Void > and/or Emptiness. It is not a gentle place and seems from > what I can intuit to be more like the concept of Chaos than > a place of womb-like security...a place (the womb) that may > not be as idylic as the Freudians make it out to be, after > all. Ah, my friend, you are discovering the true nature of the void. The void not is (emptiness), it contains ALL without form as we know it with our mundane perceptions (chaos). Sunnyata alows you to become one with the mirror of Mara or illusion. Make sense? While the womb may be very secure from one point of view, it is a place of fantasticly rapid growth as the physical organism recapitulates the phylogenetic heritage of the wjole race of man in preparation for birth as a human. The void is a womb for the attainment of Godhood (in consciousness at least). Security is a matter of perspective, is it not? Blessed Beginnings -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1285] From: Lance Lyon Date: 04-12-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 13:15 Subject: testing please ignore.. --- QuickBBS 2.64 & FD 1.99c [RT] * Origin: Avalon - -= Ars Magica =- (0:0/0) Message Number: [1286] From: Renuka Date: 04-12-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 00:56 Subject: Re: HELP!!! SeeAalso: 1296 Hi...PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) has a cruelty-free shopping guide they distribute free of charge. I will post theuir address if you indicate that you need it (which gives me a chance to track it down!). Peace, Renuka --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1287] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-09-90 To: Amergin O'Kai Time: 10:43 Subject: Re: Germany EID:b7b2 1489556d Thanks for all of that info...I have Saruman's address written down and also Peter Elliot's number. (Was that "4" in front of that number England's country code, or just part of that number?) That's not too cool, having to buy extra equipment for the modem, but I'm sure once Erik finds out, he'll try and get it. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1288] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-09-90 To: Taarna Star Time: 10:46 Subject: Re: Children in the Circle EID:b7b2 148955d2 Thanks, Taarna, for telling me this. I almost think it would be easier having an infant around than an older child. Older children are apt to wiggle and complain-infants just complain when there's truly a problem. Usually...8-) Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1289] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-09-90 To: Lady Blackdragon Time: 10:51 Subject: Craft Children SeeAalso: 1327 EID:b7b2 1489567b You've been a life-long Craft person. As you were growing up, did you ever feel left out, or like you were the "weird" one? Did you ever go through kids at school doing the "My dad says that your dad..." routine? I don't want Cory to feel ostracized because his parents don't go to church every Sunday. (Kids can be so cruel to each other.) This is something that I worry about and I'd appreciate your comments. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1290] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-09-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 11:00 Subject: Re: International Wicca? Previous Reply: 1165 SeeAalso: 1302 EID:b7b2 14895803 I already received a message from Amergin O'Kai with an address and some phone numbers and other assorted information. Think warm fuzzies and maybe I can actually make this happen! Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1291] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-09-90 To: Bill Moore Time: 11:11 Subject: Re: "Dan and Deanna" Advocate Newsletter Previous Reply: 1210 SeeAalso: 1320 EID:b7b2 14895967 I tried Cult Watch for a while and got Bibled to death. Occasionally I'll pop in (if I have any time left after perusing this echo) but last time I left it, it was kind of boring. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1292] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-09-90 To: Gerald Bliss Time: 11:13 Subject: Re: How goes? Previous Reply: 1214 EID:b7b2 148959a1 Well, ALL RIGHT for you! I'll keep my fingers crossed for your job and congrats on the getting married! Sometime or another, Erik and I are ge oing to get re-married. We did it when we did for convenience; I wanted to get married the first day of spring and we ended up doing it 3 days before Christmas. Let me know what happens with the job... Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1293] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-09-90 To: All Time: 11:18 Subject: "Wheel of the Year" EID:b7b2 14895a53 I don't remember if I mentioned this before, but I bought this book and I find it to be really interesting. It's written by Pauline Campanelli and it's definitely worth a look. I like how it goes through each month and gives workings that are particular to that time. Bright blessings to all, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1294] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-11-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 16:15 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1256 SeeAalso: 1313 > Who's to say someday todays magic won't be taught in schools > as science experiments. Hey yeah. We could all be the scientific geniouses of our time and not even know it. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1295] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-11-90 To: Tracy Gunter Time: 16:24 Subject: Re: child ethics Previous Reply: 1264 SeeAalso: 4414 I don't think your daughter will have any problems in school. I have found that children, especially very young ones, are amazingly tolerant and unprejudiced sexually, racially, religiously, etc. As long is somebody is fun to play with then it doesn't matter. Children also seem to love educational programming, the really young ones at least. That's probably the reason for the success of such programs as Seasame Street and Mr. Rogers. I'm glad to hear of your tolerance. In my opinion, the more knowledge somebody is allowed access to, the better the choices they make. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1296] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-11-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 20:59 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1286 SeeAalso: 1318 EID:d45e 148ba767 Greetings from Fennas Istarion! As for personal hygiene, we prefer Tom's of Maine. Good products, all natural. However, I avoid shaving cream entirely by using an electric razor. (Blades give me razor bumps...) BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1297] From: Kephra Ka Ra Date: 04-11-90 To: All Time: 13:35 Subject: SCOTT CUNNINGHAM I have just gotten an address for a fund being set up to help Scott Cunningham pay for his medical bills incurred due to his bout of spinal meningitus. Scott Cunningham Medical Fund c/o 8431 Beaver Lake Drive San Diego, CA 92119 According to the person I got the information from, Scott does not have any insurance, so any contribution would be appreciated. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Atlanta Connection - Home of WICCA in Atlanta (133/205) Message Number: [1298] From: Epona Star Date: 04-12-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 03:44 Subject: Creation Myths SeeAalso: 1418 EID:a18d 148c1d91 We have a creation myth which we use in our circles to call the quarters. It's rather long so if you'd like me to publish it pubilically or personally let me know or you can contact Taarna Star. Or you can find it in Drawing Down The Moon page 223 in the new version (1986 pub) under the chapter 8 Women, Feminism and the Craft and it's used in an actual ritual format. You can also find many myths about the different Goddesses, depending on which Goddess you identify with. Each Goddess tends to have her own myth. Hope this helps. Blessed Be, Epona Star --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1299] From: Nightblossom Date: 04-11-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 21:33 Subject: Re: THE BEGINNING SeeAalso: 1340 Hi Silver Claw.... in a message (04/10/90), you pondered..... SC> I was wondering, is there a creation legend in Wicca? Well, here is a neat little file on creation.... not sure if it is Wiccan and I don't know the author. CREATION (AN ORAL TEACHING OF THE FAERY TRADITION OF WITCHCRAFT) Alone, awesome, complete within Herself, the Goddess, She whose name cannot be spoken, floated in the abyss of the outer darkness, before the beginning of all things. And as She looked into the curved mirror of black space, She saw by her own light her radiant reflection, and fell in love with it. She drew it forth by the power that was in Her and made love to Herself, and called Her "Miria, the Wonderful". Their ecstasy burst forth in the single song of all that is, was, or ever shall be, and with the song came motion, waves that poured outward and became all the spheres and circles of the worlds. The Goddess became filled with love, swollen with love, and She gave birth to a rain of bright spirits that filled the worlds and became all beings. But in that great movement, Miria was swept away, and as She moved out from the Goddess She became more masculine. First She became the Blue God, the gentle , laughing God of love. Then She became the Green One, vine-covered, rooted in the earth, the spirit of all growing things. At last She became the Horned God, the Hunter whose face is the ruddy sun and yet dark as Death. But always desire draws Him back toward the Goddess, so that He circles Her eternally, seeking to return in love. All began in love; all seeks to return to love. Love is the law, the teacher of wisdom, and the great revealer of mysteries. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [1300] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-12-90 To: Mike Nichols Time: 00:25 Subject: Re: To reincarnate or not to reincarnate... Previous Reply: 1254 EID:02a5 148c0339 You make a good point, and it's exactly this sort of thing that kind of turns me off about some eastern mystical sects which teach that enlightenment can come only from a life of intense solitude and such. The way I see it, the only way we will learn any lessons about life is by living it. Granted, hours of mystical study will surely equip the initiate with adequate knowledge of the grand scheme of things, but knowledge is of limited use without the wisdom to apply it. As for my claim that this world is so much maya, I still hold fast to it, but I don't see a need to be miserable because of it. Sure, part of being human is hiding behind personal reality concepts, but once we realize and accept this, and don't lose touch with what really matters, I don't see too much of a problem. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT Opus_Humor_East 703-370-7054 USR-DS DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1301] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-12-90 To: Lance Lyon Time: 08:36 Subject: Re: testing SeeAalso: 1399 In a message to Paul Seymour <04-12-90 13:15> Lance Lyon wrote: > please ignore.. > I cannot ignore your VERY WELCOME RETURN! B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1302] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-12-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 08:40 Subject: Re: International Wicca? Previous Reply: 1290 In a message to Paul Seymour <04-09-90 11:00> Tiffany Hall-graham wrote: > I already received a message from Amergin O'Kai with an > address and some phone numbers and other assorted > information. Think warm fuzzies and maybe I can actually > make this happen! > Bright blessings, > Tiffany I sure hope so! I'll help out all I can! I do know of a couple of nodes with 9600 modems if that'll help. Australia cannot use more than 2400 though, and it gets expensive for them. Blessed Buzzies -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1313] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-12-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 10:46 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1294 SeeAalso: 1316 MSGID: 1:280/901 460ac325 > Would you by any chance know the palmistry indicators > for stillbirth? Who, me? Never touch the stuff. I'll pass the question to my resident expert. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1314] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-12-90 To: All Time: 10:50 Subject: HPF '90 MSGID: 1:280/901 460acfff Hey! Anybody coming to the Festival? We're getting closer to the deadlines; it would be a great chance to get some of the Net members together. Anyone who needs info only needs to ask; Gates & Wolf's Den are the Electronic Liason. We have information fliers and the official registration packet available online; if your BBS doesn't leave me a not and I'll send it out to you. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1315] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-12-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 11:04 Subject: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1236 MSGID: 1:280/901 460aebe5 > . What I want to know is this; for Earth > Day, my family and I > would like to help make a change by dropping all of > the products in our > house that are harmful to the environment, or harmful > to animals or the > like. Aga, you're being somewhat rediculous. How is said company going to determine if a product or substance is harmful to the environment withoug testing it? You gonna offer your family to replace the test animals? I concede that there are abuses, and gross abuses, but I also know people who have worked in animal testing labs; and they have an insight I suggest you explore. (One of them improved one procedure to use only half the animals it had.) TANSTAAFL. Anything you do is going to impact the environment somehow. Do you use paper instead of plastic? Plastic production has less invironmental impact, and plastic is more recyclable. Do you use recycled paper? Paper recycling has a major environmental impact. Do you use fossil fuels? Or do you use wood, which is far worse for the environment. > see fit to accept their responsibility toward the > environment. I think you need a far more detailed picture of what environmental responsibility really means before you go off half cocked and start writing letters to companies which may be the very models you seek. > Also, I would like to ask if anyone out there has > any information on an > organization called "Habitat for Humanity". Jimmy Carter's project to help the homeless. Volunteer groups around the country have built and/or renovated houses for the needy. Check your phonebook, or the local Red Cross. BTW: Shaving with soap and brush would probably lower your impact a little. (You aren't using _aerosol_ shave cream, are you?) --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1316] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-12-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 11:05 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1313 SeeAalso: 1317 MSGID: 1:280/901 460b153d > Um, considering you're calling on a Kansas line I > probably won't be > stopping by soon to examine your shorts, sorry! Rats. It's Misouri, but probably small differrence. Come to the festival, I can show 'em to ya there! --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1317] From: Greg Grubbs Date: 04-11-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 23:36 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1316 SeeAalso: 1326 EID:915a 148bbc80 > And anyway, science > misunderstood has always been "magic" to the natives! Who's to say > someday todays magic won't be taught in schools as science > experiments. Hard to say; but it seems obvious that much of today's magic was taught as science several hundred years ago! I would feel more comfortable with your statement if i thought a majority of magicians, or just-folks for that matter, had even a solid basic background in a modern scientific discipline. I have felt a bit cheated by my public school science education, since it never offered aught beyond Newtonian physics, and pre-calculus math. I have only begun to learn the tenets of 20th century physics during the past year (12 years post-HS). My gradual understanding of that world-view makes it much more difficult for me to make the kinds of blanket condemnations of science I have often found it gratifying to speak! Science continually broadens its scope. I think that much of 'magick', now considered 'fringe science', will become comfortably mainstream in the near future. I especially think that some potentially electromagnetic phenomena such as 'clairvoyance', 'psychokinesis', etc. may be found to have a basis in willed direction of the body's (measurable) EM energy. I doubt that much of palmistry, astrology, or candle burning will make it into the science texts of the next two centuries, however! =greg= --- FD 2.00 * Origin: Casting out the nines at Explorer's Point. (1:104/11.2) Message Number: [1318] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-12-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 14:20 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1296 SeeAalso: 1325 Just last weekend I picked up a book which I believe is called "The Green Consumer." While it lists how most things we buy are bad for the environment, it tries to focus on what you can do to make better choices. For example, it has a list of cruelty free cosmetic manufacturers (they do no animal testing) and those marked with an asterisk also do not use animal products, either. The book lists addresses for alternate sources of paper supplies, or manufacturers who do not use virgin paper (which tends to be whiter than recycled paper). It even lists passenger cars by fuel efficiency. Unfortunately, I'm not near the book now, so I can't tell you the author, but I picked it up at a Waldenbooks ... there should be lots of environmental books on display this month, given the publicity of earth day. As far as how to make oils, incense, etc., do you want to blend these or actually, in the case of oils, extract them? Making essential oils (except by the time-consuming method of enfleurage) requires a great deal of plant material, as well as an investment in extraction equipment (could run around $300). However, I mix purchased essential oils, blend incense and stuff like that, without making the oils myself, and it is quite a delight. Check out Scott Cunningham's "The Magic of Incense, Oils and Brews" (be sure you get his latest expanded edition). Also, "Wylundt's Book of Incense" (I think I got that write) published by an author with the last name of Smith (1989) is great, too. I have found that most text files around don't offer the quality of instruction found in these books. Let me know how these suggestions work for you! Blessed be, Lady Polgara --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [1319] From: Ammond Shadowcraft Date: 04-12-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 14:37 Subject: Re: The Beginning SeeAalso: 1338 Re: Creation legends... Yes there are a few. I rewrote the Diana/Lucifer love story. I have it somewhere, maybe I'll upload it. (It's taken from Godfrey Leland's intercourse with the gypseys.) --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [1320] From: Bill Moore Date: 04-12-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 16:02 Subject: Re: "Dan and Deanna" Advocate Newsletter Previous Reply: 1291 SeeAalso: 1419 In a message to Bill Moore <04-09-90 11:11> Tiffany Hall-graham wrote: TH>< I tried Cult Watch for a while and got Bibled to death. TH>< Bright blessings, TH>< Tiffany TH>< YES that echo can get quite exasperating, I tune in and out my self, I just can't take a steady diet of all that standard propaganda. Nice to see you on this one, kinda brightens my day after a long hard day atmwork to hear your cheerful words. as Pauls says: Blessed Buzzies. Bill. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [1321] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-13-90 To: Tiffany Hall-Graham Time: 00:30 Subject: Re: "Wheel of the Year" EID:a18d 148d03dd Greetings form Fennas Istarion! I received the book as a Yule gift and was quite pleasantly surprised! When I saw it on the store shelves I figured it was just yet another re-hash of the "8 Sabbats for Witches" type material. (Nothing wrong with this, I've just got lots of it on my shelves already...). It actually contains a great deal of simple, basic lore on living a magyckal life in touch with natures cycles. Great info on natural dyes, quilting, herb gathering, how to make a quill pen, etc.... BB! A-Ok --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1322] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-12-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 18:27 Subject: Oils, incenses, extracts EID:b7b2 148c937a Scott Cunningham has a book called, "The Complete Book of Incense, Oils, and Brews". I'm sure that it could be ordered through a normal bookstore, or maybe you're lucky enough to be near a New Age/Occult shop. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1323] From: David Schaal Date: 04-11-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 10:26 Subject: Heartland FMPT 12 B> so far the pagan itenerary is Heartland (via truck ... Well, See you (and everyone else) there! My registration just went in the mail. Walk With Wisdom -dave --- Sirius 1.0v+ * Origin: Same Stuff, Different Decade (1:282/341.12) Message Number: [1324] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-12-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 22:56 Subject: Re: HPF '90 > Anybody coming to the Festival? Arrrghhhh. Aire ye quite mad, mon? I'd rip through steel bars with my teeth to be there... but you probably could have predicted that... -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1325] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-12-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 23:06 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1318 SeeAalso: 1369 In a message to Aga Windwalker <04-12-90 11:04> Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > going to determine if a product or substance is harmful to > the environment withoug testing it? You gonna offer your > family to replace the test animals? Oh gods, I said to myself when I read the initial message. I'd really like to reply to that but the fact is, I don't want to open that incredibly intricate, emotionally charged and rhetoric-filled can of serpents. Thanks for doing the dirty work for me. I'll say ONE thing. I love animals. I am a Pagan. I sorrow greatly for every single animal who is killed unnecessarily, and am outraged by abusive or inhuman treatment of any life form. However, I don't think ALL animal testing is inhuman, and some of it is really quite necessary if humans are to have safe and healthy lives -- something about the 20th Century for which I am constantly grateful. Fact is, if it's a choice between a rabbit and me (and along with me, the hundreds of thousands of other people who are protected from dangerous products by the rabbit's selfless sacrifice), I choose me. I honestly don't think the rabbit would be offended by that. Animals, much more than people, are very much aware of the food chain and its various implications. (Having said her _ONE_ opinion, she braced herself and waited for the venomous replies) And thanks again for being your wonderfully verbose, opinionated self. I appreciate that. I really do. -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1326] From: Artemis Lupa Date: 04-12-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 19:36 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1317 SeeAalso: 1347 MSGID: 1:280/901 46137bc4 REPLY: 1:280/901 460ac6a7 > Would you by any chance know the palmistry indicators > for stillbirth? (Ponder, ponder; whir, click) Welllllll, children are usually read as lines ascending from the "marriage" lines located on the edge of the palm just above the heart line (which runs from below the little finger toward the fore- finger. I would assume that miscarriages are indicated by very short or broken lines, but I don't know that I've ever seen it addressed in my references or that I have seen it myself. Let me check further. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1327] From: Artemis Lupa Date: 04-12-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 19:46 Subject: Craft Children Previous Reply: 1289 SeeAalso: 9047 MSGID: 1:280/901 4613a74d > You've been a life-long Craft person. As you were > growing up, did you ever feel left out, or like you > were the "weird" one? Did you ever go through kids at Your question raised an interesting memory. I was raised Baptist and was very active in my church (Bible School teacher, church camp counselor, Baptist Student Union Choir in college), then later became an active Catholic. Finally I became a Pagan, and am now also very active in my religion. When I went to my 20 year high school reunion, a woman I had grown up with and who had only know me as a Christian made the comment that she had always expected me to grow up to be some sort of high priestess. I nearly fainted. Maybe we're the only ones who can't see ourselves clearly. I never thought I was that obvious. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1328] From: Artemis Lupa Date: 04-12-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 20:02 Subject: The Beginning Previous Reply: 1258 MSGID: 1:280/901 4613d232 > I was wondering, is there a creation legend in Wicca? One or two. How's this: I) In the beginning there was only the Goddess and She was alone and lonely. In her loneliness She danced, and the movement of her passage created a wind. She caught the wind and rolled it between Her hands, and it became a serpent. The serpent was moved by the sensuous movement of Her body and lusted for Her. They joined and from their union came the Egg of Creation from which all the universe was hatched. II) The first act of creation was the moment when the Goddess divided Herself, Dark from Light, and made the God, who was a part of Herself. From their union came Aradia, who brought all magic to mankind. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1329] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-12-90 To: All Time: 23:33 Subject: Death MSGID: 1:280/901 46178919 Could anyone tell me of any legends in which Death is depected as Female? One generally anthropomorphises Death as male. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [1330] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-14-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 07:34 Subject: Re: Hpf '90 SeeAalso: 4402 EID:c6f4 148e3c43 got a call from Rhi' last night ... a bit concerned that she hadn't received my registration, if you see her, do assure her that the proverbial check is in the mail .... bw - just running a bit behind is all - next task - IRS --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [1331] From: Beth Mccloud Date: 04-14-90 To: All Time: 21:15 Subject: Kids growing up... EID:4a37 148ea9e4 I've been in an "unorthodox" religion all my life. (Not one that is utterly incompatible with Wicca, either, I have recently found...) I *never* really wanted to know "what it would be like to be "normal/Christian/whatever... "You mean that you believe that when you die you go somewhere?! But that's not true, you just go get a new body when you die!" (I was a moderately obnoxious kid. O;> ) Of course, I didn't go to school till I was 9, and even then it was a private school, so I may not have been subjected to the normal brainwashing programs. (Sorry that I sent this to "all," but couldn't recall a name... *sigh* --"Fallen Archangel" Beth --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [1332] From: Fr. Ens Date: 04-13-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 07:35 Subject: Mara? The Void? EID:d649 148d3c78 Interesting concept. However, just as Satan is worthy of close attention for the Christian and/or Moslem and Jew, Mara is worthy of close attention in the Buddhist Realm. One of the most interesting comments on sunyatta-tathatta is that suyatta is the field and thathatta is the object in the field. I had an fun time placing myself in various statistical fields like age, education, sex, color of my car, employment or non-employment, race, etc., considering those fields as syunnyata. Right at the beginning of this meditation, I would go to sleep running possible fields in my mind and I dreampt of enclosures...temple-like enclosures...and so, womb-like enclosures. I give a lot of attention to sunyatta. One of the Rinpoches told the story of a king who had killed his father and gained liberation in that lifetime by realizing sunyatta. One personal insight is that sunyatta is anything that is generated by the human mind and\or anything that has been written. This came at the time I noted as I looked out the window of my apartment and saw the differance between human creation, i.e., cars, streets, street lamps, buildings, etc., and the earth, the trees, plants and stones. There is an isness about plants and trees and stones...there is an emptiness about human creation...and ALL the scriptures. Christianity, Buddhism, all of it is generated and recorded by the human mind and is therefore bullshit, oops, excuse me, sunyatta. I suspect real freedom is when one realizes the emptiness of anything, that includes codes of laws (spiritual or political), religious "revelations," civilization in all its corrupt beauty...all of this is void and empty void of real meaning. And so it goes and so it grows. With the genuine realization comes, I suspect, not only insight and clarity, but a certain power to move through sunnyatta (samsara and nirvana...it is all the same one thing) harmlessly, to no purpose in a state of sweet ecstacy. --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [1333] From: David Schaal Date: 04-12-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 22:12 Subject: Re: Disk Round Robin Previous Reply: 1282 FMPT 12 PS> I have 5.37Meg to contribute, but there are two small PS> problems: (1) 360Kdisks do not hold enough, & (2) PS> They are all in PKZIP 102 format. If youwish me to PS> participate with all of my pagan related files, I will PS> need touse at least 1.2MB floppies with 1.44 I tend to agree with you that 360k floppies don't 'hold enough,' but I wanted to make the round robin available to everyone. After the initial distribution (actually the first couple rounds) I expect the number of disks needed will drop to just a few. If enough people want, my machine can support 720k and 1.44 meg, but not 1.2 meg. I would also be willing to arrange something privately. I would like to have them all in one format, and I chose lharc because it was public domain. If the license agreement allows, you could leave them in pkarc format and add a copy of pkxarc to your contibution. Walk With Wisdom -dave --- Sirius 1.0v+ * Origin: Same Stuff, Different Decade (1:282/341.12) Message Number: [1334] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-13-90 To: Beth Mccloud Time: 23:57 Subject: Re: Kids growing up... In a message to All <04-14-90 21:15> Beth Mccloud wrote: > (Sorry that I sent this to "all," but couldn't recall a name... *sigh* That is perfectly OK. Welcome aboard thhe WICCA echo! As moderator, I hope to see a little more of you. B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1338] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-13-90 To: Artemis Lupa Time: 13:58 Subject: Re: The Beginning Previous Reply: 1319 SeeAalso: 1372 I think I like that first legend there. Seems more beautiful. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1339] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-13-90 To: Epona Star Time: 13:59 Subject: Re: Creation Myths SeeAalso: 1343 I'll look that legend up in "Drawing Down the Moon". Thanks for the help. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1340] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-13-90 To: Nightblossom Time: 14:01 Subject: Re: THE BEGINNING Previous Reply: 1299 SeeAalso: 1368 This legend I have read before in "The Spiral Dance". There seem to be an incredible nnumber of creation legends. I guess your supposed to choose the one you like best. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1341] From: Robin Hood Date: 04-13-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 20:35 Subject: Re: Death SeeAalso: 1342 Death as a woman eh? I guess the most accessible myths would be the norse. I recall Hel was supposed to be the queen of the underworld. Some say she was half alive half dead, some say half white half black. In anycase she was queen of Niflheim the land of the dead. In Greek myth there are both Persephone and Hecate who shared the rule of the underworld with Hades. They were both pretty death like. Kali, the destroyer, is death like. In welsh Mythos, there are several, but I always was fond of Arianhrod. The silver wheel was supposed to be an underworld kind of castle. These are the stars that circle the pole star. One of my personal favorites is Erishkigel from the Innana myths. It was her stare of death which took the life of Innana in the underworld. When she was brought back to life, Innana also had the stare of death, which she used on Tamuz, choosing him to take her place in the underworld. For a grim reaper kind of woman, how about the ban-sidh, or Banshee. The Fairy woman whose wail heralds death. There are a ton of female personifications of death. I disagree that death is most often personified as a male. For wiccans it is the Crone aspect that is most associated with death. The God of the underworld usually plays the role of Pychopomp. The one who leads the souls to the underworld. That role is commonly male. But I know of several people who believe they have seen the dark goddess come to claim the slain. Choosers of the Slain, of course, the Valkyries, and their wondrous leader Freya. She was a personification of beauty, of fertility, but also of death. There you are, a whole host of women deaths. Is this what you were asking for? I could probbably get more specific, or even come up with some more. >---ROBIN---> --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1342] From: Mike Nichols Date: 04-14-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 01:12 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 1341 SeeAalso: 1344 RE: Death as female... Not a legend in the traditional sense, but there IS a wonderful short story by Algernon Blackwood in which Death is personified by an attractive young woman spotted across the dance floor by an older man. To his surprise, she approaches him and asks him to dance. And in the middle of the dance, he begins to notice something strange about his surroundings and he figures out who she is. A really pretty story. (Then again, you might have to consider the movie "All That Jazz", too!) --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1343] From: Mike Nichols Date: 04-14-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 01:57 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 1339 SeeAalso: 4408 The question of whether Wicca has a "creation myth" has been kicked around for a long time. Most of the ones that I've seen seem "apocryphal", to say the least. Which is to say, they seem like pretty recent inventions. If you accept that the modern Craft tradition draws heavily on Celtic roots, for example, it is difficult to find a prototype for any creation myth. Which might be interesting for what it implies, as my friend and religious scholar Tom O'Neal has pointed out: Does the lack of a creation myth imply a lack of creation? Think about it. For the Celtic view of cyclical time, this might make perfect sense. There was no "In the beginning..." because nothing "began". I t might have changed forms. It might have moved from the realms of Annwyn to Gwynved. But it always WAS. Likewise, Celtic myth is not too big on apocalyptic myths, either. Which seems to imply that it always WILL BE. Thus, the circle of existence remains unbroken. If this is true, then it says something pretty unique about Wicca. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1344] From: Mike Nichols Date: 04-14-90 To: Robin Hood Time: 02:05 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 1342 SeeAalso: 1374 RE: Death as female... And to your list, let me add the Morigan, of Irish myth. However, I'm not sure I'd agree with you that for most Wiccans, the God is the Psychopomp. In fact, in the most common Wicca myth of all, "The Descent of the Goddess", he is not the one who leads you to the Underworld, but rather He is the lord of it. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1347] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-13-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 20:38 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1326 SeeAalso: 1393 You never know. The witchdoctors of yesteryear healing with plants are evolved into the doctors of today. Nature religions celebrating the stars and seasons are our astronomers. Alchemy of old is todays chem lab experiments. Pyramid builders using principles we STILL can't duplicate today, and it was all "magic..." --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [1365] From: Tanis Date: 04-13-90 To: Randy Niere Time: 17:36 Subject: Re: PANGUR BAN Previous Reply: 1191 SeeAalso: 4942 Well, apologies, Syr Ternon de Caerleon...for the delay in responding. As I am now firmly (??) re-located back in the MidRealm (again)... Tanis --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [1366] From: Tanis Date: 04-13-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 17:39 Subject: Re: CAPITALS AND LOWERCASE SeeAalso: 1417 No, I'm not...I have a computer now. And I apologize for the delay in responding...I finally arrived in Louisville, KY...after driving the ALCAN highway. (Highway...what a joke!! If you call a 20 ft. wide stretch of dirt a highway...in sections...) Anys...I'm back, whatever that means. Tanis --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [1367] From: Tanis Date: 04-13-90 To: All Time: 17:49 Subject: WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?? In the words of Max Headroom..... "He's Ba-Ba-Ba-Ba-Back!!" Live and direct from Louisville, KY, the new home for Castle Confusion (if/when I ever get around to starting the board)...I'll be around. -Tanis of the Northwoods -Now with a new den!! --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [1368] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-14-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 09:48 Subject: Re: THE BEGINNING Previous Reply: 1340 SeeAalso: 1371 In a message to Nightblossom <04-13-90 14:01> Silver Claw wrote: > This legend I have read before in "The Spiral Dance". > There seem to be an incredible nnumber of creation legends. > I guess your supposed to choose the one you like best. "The Craft has always beena religion of poetry, not theology. The myths, legends, and teachings are recognized as metaphors for 'that which cannot be told'; The absolute reality our minds can never completely comprehend simply because of the limits placed on them by biology." Bright Blessings -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1369] From: Moon Puppy Date: 04-12-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 19:28 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1325 SeeAalso: 1381 EID:de3e 148c9b80 Hi again, not much help in the info. A suggestion is to do what I did before growing a beard: shave with water and no shaving cream. A little soap if needed helps. In the long run I've found letting it grow the best solution, I forget to shave for four or five days in a row. Do continue to try to be ecologically alert, begining with the self is the first step..... Smiles MP Lars --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: NPI I (617) 593-0081 Lynn, MA (1:101/192.0) Message Number: [1370] From: Moon Puppy Date: 04-12-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 19:49 Subject: Re:Wolves in Circle EID:de3e 148c9e25 Hi Blackwolf, this is the fourth try to leave a message... in response to your posting to me, lost in disk crash... BW>>> Say waht? Well I have not observed the four legs only the two legs and those only one alone. They are nice people, those who claim the wolf as their animal, however they are all busy and drop everything to concentrate on one thing and then drop that to work on another and drop that... so on. I asked if that was the rule of thumb, you say no. Please tell us more of how the four legs take care of the young and how that can be applied to the two legs. Yes I have seen two legs "play with small mammals", if you want to put it that way... ie five boyfriends in five months.... my comment is that one should throw out condoms, not the person using them. I personally have gone through more partners in less time but I left them in good shape and able to go on to the next person... waste not want not. by the way, I dance with leaves as they fall, pity the people who don't... type in haste MP --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: NPI I (617) 593-0081 Lynn, MA (1:101/192.0) Message Number: [1371] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-14-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 22:01 Subject: Re: THE BEGINNING Previous Reply: 1368 SeeAalso: 1373 EID:a18d 148eb033 SC>I guess you're supposed to choose the one you like best. Or, better yet, write your own! :-) BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1372] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-14-90 To: Artemis Lupa Time: 18:27 Subject: Re: The Beginning Previous Reply: 1338 Your creation myth contributions gave me goosebumps all over! Wonderful stuff. Got any related book titles you can recommend? -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1373] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-14-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 18:34 Subject: Re: THE BEGINNING Previous Reply: 1371 SeeAalso: 4409 In a message to Nightblossom <04-13-90 14:01> Silver Claw wrote: > I guess your supposed to choose the one you like best. Why choose? That's the best thing about being a Pagan! You can acknowlege the validity of each one, choose some personal favorites to work with, study or use in ritual and meditation and stuff, and never have to deny a single one! They're _all_ real, in one way or another, and each one can be appropriate and important in a different context. Hey, the freedom to _not_ choose is just as important a part of this religion as its counterpart, and who says you can't have a taste of every single dish on the banquet table, right? You can always go back for more of the ones you like... Blessed be, -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [1374] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-15-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 09:30 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 1344 SeeAalso: 1420 EID:c6f4 148f4bdc * can anyone tell me of any legends where death is female look east, young man .... bw - two that immediately come to mind, the morrigan (macha, nemon, badbh), and kali --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [1381] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-15-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 10:15 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1369 SeeAalso: 1382 One of the companies that I wrote to tested colognes on animals. Explain to me why you need to put alcohol in an animals eyes to prove that it is an eye irritant. Chances are, if it was an irritant before, it isn't going to change any time soon........ Also, thanks for the info on Habitat. I appreciate it. Finally, I went back to soap and brush, mostly because half of the shaving creams out there make me break out..... sigh. In light, life and love, Blessed Be! -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [1382] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-15-90 To: Renuka Time: 10:16 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1381 SeeAalso: 1383 If you get a chance to grab hold of the address, please post it here! Thanks! -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [1383] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-15-90 To: Lady Polgara Time: 10:20 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1382 SeeAalso: 1384 Thank you for the information, Lady Polgara! (or should I say, Pol) -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [1384] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-15-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 10:25 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1383 SeeAalso: 1394 Hmmmmmmm. Maybe I should go ahead and restate what I meant in my earlier message. Everyone, please excuse me. Most of the time, I write these messages after roughly 28 hours of almost no-sleep, so it's a wonder that I even spell correctly. What I mean by animal testing is that I do not feel that is a REQUIRED part of our society that cosmetics and such be tested on animals. Bunnies do NOT wear perfume. In the case of medicines and such, as much as I hate to say it, I do not feel that there is any other way (although I have on occassion given thought to Death Row Inmates, but common sense intervenes) to go about it. Primarilly what upsets me is a company that I just recently stopped purchasing products from. Since this is NOT the animal rights echo, I won't reveal their name. However, I was upset about the fact that they tested a COLOGNE on animals, to determine if it was an eye irritant. Common sense should tell you that Alcohol irritates that eye, and since alcohol is a primary ingredient in this particular brand of cologne, it should not be necessary to test it on an animal. -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [1393] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-14-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 13:33 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1347 SeeAalso: 9031 EID:784f 148e6c37 MSGID: 1:109/120 26275f30 Hmm, kilts have never struck me as particularly vogue; that's interesting. Anyone know where I can pick up one of this items stateside? I've always wanted one, but have no idea where to look... -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1394] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-14-90 To: Renuka Time: 13:36 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1384 SeeAalso: 1395 EID:784f 148e6c93 MSGID: 1:109/120 26276025 Search no further for the address! PETA can be contacted at PO Box 42516, Washington, DC 20015. Their phone # is (202)726-0156, in case anyone needs it... -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1395] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-14-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 13:46 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1394 SeeAalso: 1397 EID:784f 148e6dca MSGID: 1:109/120 262762fa While granted, we may not be able to live life without harming the environment, we have to at least make an effort! Granted, some scientific breakthroughs may have not been possible without animal testing, but if given the choice, I am still going to use a product which didn't require the lives of critters to produce. There _are_ soaps, shampoos, etc. which are made by environmentally concious companies, and I don't see why you seem to take an almost scoffing attitude towards those who seek to use these products. As far as plastic vs. paper bags go, there are flaws with both, but losses can be cut to a minimum through the miracle of recycling! -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1396] From: Dave Aronson Date: 04-14-90 To: Jerome Birnbaum Time: 13:43 Subject: Re: Response to AD EID:b41b 148e6d69 MSGID: 1:109/120 262763d0 > JB: First, sorry for the offence. 'Sallright... no offense taken, just trying to make you aware of claims you may accidentally be making on the part of other folks who have no interest in any such commercial venture. > JB: Second, the BB I meant was the BB of the origin of the ad. Yeah, *I* figured that out, but a lot of folks might not. The folks on TIDMADT are by and large smart enough, but inexperienced folks elsewhere might think it was for their local board, so I was speaking up on their behalf. > JB: Third, I wish my ad were commercial. That would mean we were > JB: making a profit. That may never come to pass. So I honestly wonder > JB: whether or not I am comercial. Making a profit has nothing to do with whether you're commercial. Ask the phone company. (If you provide a service, you are a business. They tend to wink at it for BBS's, but if you charge at all, they have a very strong case to nail your buns to the proverbial wall.) Ask any commercial venture that has lost money (there are plenty). > JB: Fourth, What do you mean by a legally binding contract with TIDMADT? Exactly what I said. If you are interested in marketing your products via this BBS (TIDMADT, soon to be a part of TIDMADT Enterprises, as soon as TE is formally established), then we can talk contracts... and any such contract will be legally binding, and profitable to TE. If TE does not become a reality, then you would still be welcome to place an ad here... with the *explicit* disclaimer that I am not in any way liable for your products or non-delivery thereof.... > JB: What ever income arrives from this effort is used to continue > JB: our group activities. It doesn't matter what it's used for. Business is business... and now that I'm out of a job, this BBS *is* soon going to be a business. --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1397] From: Simon Waters Date: 04-14-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 16:47 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1395 SeeAalso: 1398 EID:49c3 148e85e5 MSGID: 1:109/120 26278c9f AW> What I would like to know is what kind of toothpaste/shavingcream/soap AW> is out there that would help us out? have you checked out the various baking-soda toothpastes ("dental care" by arm & hammer, "peak" by colgate)? or "tom's of maine" natural toothpaste? --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1398] From: Simon Waters Date: 04-14-90 To: Amergin O'Kai Time: 16:52 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1397 SeeAalso: 1422 EID:57b1 148e8688 MSGID: 1:109/120 26278da8 > AO: However, I avoid shaving cream entirely by using > AO: an electric razor. i've got an even better way - don't shave! :-{)# --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1399] From: Lance Lyon Date: 04-15-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 18:30 Subject: Re: testing Previous Reply: 1301 SeeAalso: 1400 In a message to Lance Lyon <04-12-90 08:36> Paul Seymour wrote: PS >In a message to Paul Seymour <04-12-90 13:15> Lance Lyon PS >wrote: PS > PS > > please ignore.. PS > > PS >I cannot ignore your VERY WELCOME RETURN! thankyou! in between myself & an awful lot of users, I was caught between a rock & a hard place... This will shut 'em up! Nice to be back, by the way, this echo is being forwarded on to Newcastle (2nd largest city in NSW) & Brisbane (capital of Queensland), ok by you ? BB Lance. --- QuickBBS 2.64 & FD 1.99c [RT] * Origin: Avalon - -= Ars Magica =- (28:2100/0) Message Number: [1400] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-15-90 To: Lance Lyon Time: 09:56 Subject: Re: testing Previous Reply: 1399 SeeAalso: 4901 In a message to Paul Seymour <04-15-90 18:30> Lance Lyon wrote: > thankyou! in between myself & an awful lot of users, I was > caught between a rock & a hard place... This will shut > 'em up! Nice to be back, by the way, this echo is being > forwarded on to Newcastle (2nd largest city in NSW) & > Brisbane (capital of Queensland), ok by you ? > BB > Lance. Sure! Many of us have enjoyed the participation here by the folks "down under" and look forward to it again. Besides, the wider the distribution you have, the harder it will be to "break the link" again! B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1407] From: Michael Thorn Date: 04-16-90 To: Richard Harper Time: 18:11 Subject: Wax! EID:d75a 14909175 Richard- I havenUt been able to find the address or order form, though I did take it out some time ago and put it in a safe place. If it appears I will let you know. BB --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [1408] From: Michael Thorn Date: 04-16-90 To: All Time: 18:13 Subject: Circle in an uproar EID:d75a 149091a8 Has anyone heard anything after the letter from TFriends of CircleS and her rumored firing of the staff? --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [1416] From: Electra Star Date: 04-16-90 To: Steve Rose, And Steve Craig Time: 04:05 Subject: ME TOO!!! EID:a18d 149020a1 Dear Steves, I Just wanted to add my two cents(as someone earlier asked for I tend to get along best with Cat People And Cats for that matter. I thought I'd introduce myself since I am new to this board, and I also am a seeker Studying Wicca. About two weeks ago We had to take one of (My Mothers Poodles to the Vet after It had 4 or 5 epileptic seizures) The dog upon ariving at the emergency hospital acted completly normal but as we were leaving the hospital 3 women brought a cat in that was having trouble breathing and it looked like it was not going to live much longer, My point is I was so worried about this strange Cat that I went home and lit a candle, sprinkled catnip around it, and prayed to the goddess bast to help the cat. (and the poodle if Bast helped poodles) I never found out if the poor cat lived, but If that cat had been mine I would have had my entire coven praying for him, Yes , you might say I'm a cat person... Lets see maybe I'll finish introducing myself , on other boards my alias is cat lady. Most people think Cat lady is an older woman but she's 23. I am a seeker at star crystal coven, The name was changed from Star Crest Coven because the name sounds too much like a dairy, or a sausage factory, I kept wanting to call my friend and say that the milk was late. Write me, I'd apprieciate Recieving mail, I like it..!!! Sincerly, Electra Star (Cat Lady) --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1417] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-15-90 To: Tanis Time: 18:03 Subject: Re: CAPITALS AND LOWERCASE Previous Reply: 1366 SeeAalso: 1429 EID:b7b2 148f907c Welcome back! Sounds like you had an incredibly fun drive. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1418] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-15-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 18:08 Subject: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 1298 EID:b7b2 148f9117 Why don't you check out these books: "The Power of Myth" by Joseph Campbell with Bill Moyers and "World Religions: From Ancient History to the Present" edited by Geoffrey Parrinder. In one of those books, I could swear that I saw a creation myth having to do with a goddess and a serpent. It sounded sort of like one of the ones that (I think) Artemis Lupa typed. I can't find the particular myth, but that's probably just because I'm looking for it. If I weren't looking for it, I would open the book up right to the exact page. Sometimes I think that the Imp of the Perverse rules my life. "The Power of Myth" also tells the legend about Isis, Osiris, and Horus and explains how it ties in with the Madonna and the Child. It's an excellent book and I would highly recommend it. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1419] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-15-90 To: Bill Moore Time: 18:15 Subject: Re: "Dan and Deanna" Advocate Newsletter Previous Reply: 1320 SeeAalso: 4296 EID:b7b2 148f91ee Thank you for the compliment! Brightened my day.... Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [1420] From: Moon Puppy Date: 04-16-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 01:10 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 1374 SeeAalso: 1423 EID:1f70 1490095d MSGID: 1:101/192 26295434 As a response to Jonathan Hutchins 12-apr-90 11:33 pm and for general info I present the following. Marvel Comics has for the past few years been presenting Death as a Female Cosmic Entity with the Male counter-part being Eternity, the sum of all Life in all dimensions. Marvel has been "revealing" many dualities in their Cosmic level beings: Order/Chaos, Death/Eternity. They have also been dealing with Goddess forms: Gaea is alive and well in the Marvel Universe. In Power Pack an alien female undergoes a rapid mutation and becomes a Demi-Goddess called the Matriarch and in a "dream" issue Katie (one of the Power Pack) goes on a "visionquest" adventure and ends up discovering the "all knowing Oracle" is the "intuitive, feeling side of the universe" who is the Queen of the "dream realm", taking physical form to help the King rule wisely. Hmmm been so long that I read this I think I'll have to dig it out.... As for the other big publisher, DC Comics has done some ok things too. In the three recent issues of Firestorm the hero meets the Orisha of Santeria/Africa, I know little of them and I'm wondering how followers feel/will react to the presentation. The character, Extrano, in the short lived "The New Guardians" called himself a Witch. DC never explained/explored what was ment by that word but I liked the character, a sensitive flaming queen super hero, he got all the good lines. FINALLY the Amazons are printed as saying,"But most of us find satisfaction in each other - - three thousand years can be a long time, reverend."<== WonderWoman #38.(ok I'm getting off topic) Both DC and Marvel are using the names of Gods and Goddess from many cultures. Giving them lots of publicity and at times very strange attributes. I am glad that the names are being remembered but at times I cringe when I read of the new villian being called a (mostly) benevolent God/dess. I ask the people in the know on thought forms, how is this affecting the already existing God Forms of these names? the avid reader, MP ok the upload works, Later L --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: NPI I (617) 593-0081 Lynn, MA 01904 (1:101/192.0) Message Number: [1421] From: Moon Puppy Date: 04-16-90 To: Missed Who Time: 01:17 Subject: HPF SeeAalso: 4399 EID:1f70 14900a25 MSGID: 1:101/192 262957c7 Hi just have a moment, I saw someone ask who is showing up at HPF. I will not due to time and money constraints. I won't be going to Rites of Spring (ROS) for the same reason. Think kindly of me though... I hope to get to Free Spirit Aliance, should my friends down there send me info. As an attempt to make this relevent, who in general goes to these public festivals. Do you find them a "working" event or a social event? I have been to Esotericons, Ecumenicons, ROS and Twilight Covenings as well as some SF Cons that have Path-workings and Tarot Discussions. I enjoy all of them but admit that I am mostly there for the social aspect... I do appreciate the difficulty of organizing the events. At the moment ROS is trying to achive a more focused event. Hmm... anyone from the NE area going to HPF and have room for a nice Moon Puppy to come along? I feel adventurous all of the sudden... Later MP --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: NPI I (617) 593-0081 Lynn, MA 01904 (1:101/192.0) Message Number: [1422] From: Robin Culain Date: 04-15-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 21:20 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1398 SeeAalso: 1425 EID:f7a4 148faa98 MSGID: 1:109/120 26291f8b Well, rabbits are usually discussed in the context of cosmetics testing, Draize tests and the like. I don't think the value of a (very) potentially enhanced appearance justifies suffering, do you? ... Obviously the situations involving disease research are much more difficult and ethically ambiguous. ... One thing does occur to me, however. I personally believe that blood sacrifice is both effective and devastatingly harmful to the practicioner as well as the victim. It occurred to me last week (I know, John Cowper Powys said so, but I'm slow sometimes) that experimental allopathic medicine is effectively (in both senses of the word) a blood sacrifice cult, with nonhuman animals its victims and human animals the short term beneficiaries. Scientists are given licence to perform acts in a ritualistic context that would be viewed very differently in any other area of life. ... One might protest that it's not "magick", it is "science". Lots of debate on the semantic nuance there, eh. Point is, the ritualistic activities of the Priesthood are carried out, the victims suffer, bleed and die, and the congregation achieves very real substantial benefit. ... I wonder if there's a long term disability attached to the bargain, or if this is a case where the Gods are quiet, Karma an illusion, and value goes to the strong and ruthless. ... My bet is on the former. ... Working on an article on this for the next Journal, but it's grist for the mill if someone else can take it further. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1423] From: Paul Hume Date: 04-15-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 09:19 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 1420 SeeAalso: 1438 EID:ee64 148f4a78 Jonathan - Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. The only mythology with personified Death-Gods that uses women in that role (that Ican think of offhand) is teutonic. Valkyries, the choosers of the slain, are women. Hel, ruler of the underworld where the non- Valhalla-bound dead go is female. Not a lot of cultures personify Death as such, the way euro-american culture does. There is often the role of a psychopomp, and a ruler or rulers of the afterlife, whether it is a unified afterlife (eg. Hades) or divided into a heaven and hell (eg. Japanese Buddhism). But death AS death is a natural phenomenon, not personified. The beings in the legends deal with the soul after death (which is the case for the teutonic figures I mentioned, come to think of it). Love is the law, love under will. Paul --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [1424] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-16-90 To: Electra Star Time: 07:46 Subject: Re: ME TOO!!! SeeAalso: 4885 In a message to Steve Rose, And Steve Craig <04-16-90 04:05> Electra Star wrote: > is an older woman but she's 23. I am a seeker at star > crystal coven, The name was changed from Star Crest Coven > because the name sounds too much like a dairy, or a sausage > factory, I kept wanting to call my friend and say that the > milk was late. Welcome aboard the WICCA Echo! I personally thin that Star Crystal sounds a little to "New Age"-ish for my taste, but then I am not part of the coven either! B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1425] From: Renuka Date: 04-17-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 00:40 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1422 SeeAalso: 1426 Thanks for posting the PETA address, Craig...hope all of you are going to be active on Earth Day! Blessed Be and Namaste, Renuka --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [1426] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-16-90 To: Simon Waters Time: 22:29 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1425 SeeAalso: 1440 EID:a18d 1490b3ac Greetings from Fennas Istarion! Unfortunately, the Armed Forces has yet to remeber the wisdom of your solution. (General Grant, where are you when we REALLY need you?) BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1427] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-16-90 To: Orlando Wiccan Time: 22:44 Subject: Orlando area Network EID:8f9c 1490b599 Greetings from Fennas Istarion! A friend of mine in Orlando, FL has asked me to pass this on, as he's having term program problems logging-on there. A network is being started in the Orlando area, called The Wiccan Rounde. Any one interested can contact them at The Wiccan Rounde P.O. Box #536771 Orlando, FL 32853-6771 (407)896-2120 BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [1428] From: Ammond Shadowcraft Date: 04-16-90 To: All Time: 18:51 Subject: No activity on Magicknet? There has been no activity on magicknet for 9 days. Anyone know what is happening? --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [1429] From: Tanis Date: 04-16-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 19:41 Subject: Re: CAPITALS AND LOWERCASE Previous Reply: 1417 Fun is *not* a word I would use to describe driving the Alaska-Canadian Highway. Challenging is closer...Nightmare is on the mark. But the car made it without breaking down...(thank you Eris for holding off until after we got to Lousiville...then hitting us with all the problems. *Gryn*) -Tanis of the Northwoods --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [1430] From: Randy Alexander Date: 03-21-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 00:02 Subject: Re: BISEXUALS Previous Reply: 1104 SeeAalso: 1432 * Replying to a message originally to Fire Storm KC> so far? To rephrase, I am NO DIFFERENT from you in my KC> sexual preferences, except that I have a wider variety. Hey! That's well put! May I use that when trying so settle arguments? (I'm BI Too!) Randy --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [1431] From: Randy Alexander Date: 03-21-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 00:14 Subject: Re: GAY WICCANS * Replying to a message originally to Ammond Shadowcraft AW> that they are this STUPID. Now I'm getting phone calls on AW> the answering AW> machine. Sorry to hear the hunters are after you...Fundamentalist Christians are THE root of MOST of the evil in this world...Drop me a line if I can be of any help! Randy --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [1432] From: Randy Alexander Date: 03-21-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 00:15 Subject: Re: BISEXUALS Previous Reply: 1430 SeeAalso: 1433 * Replying to a message originally to Randy Niere AW> stones. A gay, AW> wiccan cadet for the police academy. Someone call Guiness AW> when I graduate. Geez! No Kidding! Quite a combo. Good Luck with everything! Randy --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [1433] From: Randy Alexander Date: 03-21-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 00:22 Subject: Re: BISEXUALS Previous Reply: 1432 SeeAalso: 4398 * Replying to a message originally to Jonathan Hutchins AW> How can I type such utter drivel? Probably becuase I AW> have been dumped AW> before by bi-sexuals. Also, please, I don't go around Well, sorry to hear that, but how can you condem an entire class of people based on that? AW> Also, I said that they were SEXUALLY unstable. What AW> do YOU think AW> bi-sexual means? It means that they like having sex with AW> BOTH types. AW> This would imply that they are not SEXUALLY stable, AW> being that they AW> flit from one gender to the next. I didn't say that this I don't agree, If you eat Wheat Bread and also drink milk does that mean you are nutritionally unstable? You enjoy driving AND riding a bicycle, does that mean you are transportationally unstable? AW> that I asked if anyone else out there knew of a working AW> bisexual AW> relationship to please tell me of it. No replies yet. My wife and I are both very bi-sexual, our relationship for the past 5 years has been absoultely fantastic! What do you consider a 'working relationship?' Randy --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [1434] From: Randy Alexander Date: 03-21-90 To: Amergin O'kai Time: 00:26 Subject: Re: Still Sex Questions Previous Reply: 1120 * Replying to a message originally to Moon Puppy AO> Goddess and vice-verse. It would require essentially a AO> polarity switch for one of the two, which some Interesting observation! I have always been both female and male in my sexuality and emotions so it would be easy for me to 'switch polarities' as you say. We all have male and female within us, some people spend their entire lives fighting one or the other... Randy --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [1435] From: Randy Alexander Date: 03-21-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 00:29 Subject: To those in the Craft with children... SeeAalso: 4893 TH> I'd be very interested in hearing what other parents do TH> with their kids. Well we just make all the options open and try to keep our daughter from being brainwashed by the Christian Fundies..She's only 3 so there's not a whole lot we can do at the moment... Randy --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [1436] From: Randy Alexander Date: 03-21-90 To: John Drum Time: 00:36 Subject: Re: OUJI BOARDS & MEDITATION. * Replying to a message originally to Carol-sue Mcilhargey JD> think about. What if the reason you can't reach your JD> grandmother is that she has reincarnated to another body JD> and there's no one their to contact. Hey! That happens a lot! Plus add the fact that on the Oujai board contact with spirits is not too selective and some spirits are very confused and unreliable. Meditation through your higher self is more selective and more reliable. At least from my experiences! Randy --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [1437] From: Randy Alexander Date: 03-21-90 To: Ryan Alexander Time: 00:42 Subject: Oh No! Oh No! Your here too! More confustication! RBA --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [1438] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-16-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 15:13 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 1423 SeeAalso: 4400 EID:f7a4 149079b6 MSGID: 1:109/120 262a1b08 Hmm, I've always looked upon Death as feminine, representing the qualities of rest, returning to the infinte womb, etc. This image is even stronger when looking at the process of the inner drive (id, Chokmah, etc.), seeking unity with the One (in Qabalistic terms, through the masculine force of Chokmah marrying into the emptiness of Binah, the ultimate feminine manifestation); a process possible only through the death of the ego. In more nature-oriented beliefs, we see more of death as being feminine: burial is again symbolic of return to the womb and such. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1439] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-16-90 To: Fr. Ens Time: 15:25 Subject: Re: Mara? The Void? SeeAalso: 6842 EID:f7a4 14907b32 MSGID: 1:109/120 262a1e0e >And so it goes and so it grows. With the genuine realization comes, I >suspect, not only insight and clarity, but a certain power to move through >sunnyatta (samsara and nirvana...it is all the same one thing) >harmlessly, to no purpose in a state of sweet ecstacy. While I am not well versed in the gnomenclature of Buddhism, this statement strikes me as a very important fact which a lot of folks don't seem to realize: there is nothing inherently "sinful" or "wrong" with revelling in the pool of maya, provided one realizes that it is merely illusory in nature. I know that a constant dedication to spiritual acheivement can get pretty strenuous on the mind after a while, and in such cases, engaging in a bit of superficiality can serve as the pause that refreshes. We are, of course, imperfect as humans, and as such, we need to feed the id with a bit of spiritual junk food from time to time, and instead of worrying about how "bad" this process is, why not just enjoy ourselves? -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [1440] From: Paul Hume Date: 04-16-90 To: Robin Culain Time: 08:45 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1426 SeeAalso: 4397 EID:8eb1 149045a2 Robin, DO what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Gee, Robin, I realize this can of worms has been opened before, but what alternatives do you offer to experimental allopathy, with animal subjects? Paganism (and PETA, and the rest) is long on criticism here, but very, very short on substantive suggestions. Herbals? How do you verify the effectiveness of the remedies. Magical healing? Are there enough magicians with that talent willing to commit themselves to it for life? All this setting aside the question of reproducible effect. All those objecting on ethical grounds to animal research in medicine are hereby granted permission to avoid any and all therapies that they feel were tested unethically. I will go along with you on the cosmetics question, however. Love is the law, love under will. Paul --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [1456] From: Randall Terpstra Date: 04-17-90 To: All Interested Parties Time: 12:57 Subject: Thuggee, Thagi or Kali Worship EID:d75a 14916731 I am attempting to research some information regarding the re-emergance [D[Dhe ancient thuggee or thagi sectg from India. This sect is generally known to be extremely violent and practice human sacrifice by stragulation. I am requesting the assistance of all practitioners and believers in the metaphysical and esoteric to identify these people (if they indeed are out there). If my preliminary research is correct, these people may be followers of the now deposed Bahgwan Shree Rajhneesh. If my initial investigation is correct, there is a small group (ashram) of approx 6-7 people traveling with a "teacher". They are responsible for the ritual strangulation and murder of 49 young women in Seattle (Green River Killer) duriing the time that the Bahgwan was most active in Oregon. After being deported, the killings in Seattle suddenly stopped. This in turn coincides with the "closure" of the enlightenment center in Seattle. If I am correct, this sect is responsible for the death of the 49 young women in Seattle, 46 young women in San Diego, and is active NOW in the New Bedford Mass. area. If anyone has information on this please leave it hwere on the BBS. I will be checking periodically. I am travelling a great dal at this time and i cannot give you a phone or address to pass data to me.. Any information that you can provide will be greatly apprecioated. If necessary your annonymity is assured. --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [4290] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 04-19-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 10:41 Subject: Re: Wolves In Ritual Previous Reply: 1161 Bl>is it Bl>any wonder why those of us of celtic descent seem to relate Bl>so well to them as totem animals? re: an earlier posting of mine to you on mundane i suppose it's only fair to mention that my totem animal is the rabbit. b/b ========= rorschach ========= --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [4291] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 04-19-90 To: Amergin O'Kai Time: 10:45 Subject: Re: I did reply immediately... Previous Reply: 1132 AO> AO> How about local networking in Olando? (Seriously!) A ahem. VERY interested. please have said individual contact me here. goddess, but working solitary gets old quickly. ========= rorschach ========= --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [4292] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 04-19-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 10:49 Subject: Re: Reincarnation Previous Reply: 1262 PS>Not to be too picky here, but was there anything in the PS>movie of value or interest to those of us in the "craft"? not unless you posess both an interest in the craft and an interest in b-grade movies and are willing to suspend the former for 2 hours.... ;-} gotta remember the title of a horror film i saw a couple of weeks ago that sounded like the script had ³×ÿbeen edited by the wiccan anti-defmation league. lines included "almost all witches are good" and, upon discovering the practices of the bad guys "they're not witches, they're satanists!" b/b ========= rorschach ========= ÷³ --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [4293] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 04-19-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 10:53 Subject: Re: Hello Previous Reply: 1131 SeeAalso: 6449 AW> I would be very interested in meeting with this group in AW>Jacksonville, AW>as my coven down here is slowly spiralling down to a halt AW>until summertime. will chat with them, but age might be a factor. i think you mentioned being a minor in the eyes of the state? threatened prosecution on "contributing" charges led an antecedent group of the same coven to drop a member who was 16. sad but true. b/b ========= rorschach ========= --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [4294] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 04-19-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 11:00 Subject: Re: WOLVES IN RITUAL Previous Reply: 1192 SC>Friday night, I'll often head over to the $1 discount SC>cinema and catch a movie or two by myself. In telling SC>people about this, though, they tend to think there is SC>something sadly poetic in it... not here. as my tastes in films and music tend to be a little "off-mainstream" (dr. r - master of the understatement) i go to lots of cultural events alone. no real problem there, as i consider it a relationship between me and the artist. i am a bit tired of solitary circle work, though. (probably as tired as people here are of hearing me say it.) b/b ========= rorschach ========= --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [4295] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 04-19-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 11:05 Subject: Re: Tara and the Goddess Previous Reply: 1284 PS>I was led to the craft via an experience linking the PS>enrgies of the Tantric White Tara with the lunar energies. PS>However I have been having very little success in PS>documenting this through any other method other than my PS>personal experience. Does anyone else have any information PS>on this? i don't know that i can be of any help with technique, but my religious background before moving into wicca was in taoist practices - alchemical, tai chi, meditative, etc. i have found an amazing number of correspondances between the two and am developing a monograph on the topic. öº as you have no doubt noticed the emphasis on polarity is a common point, work with elemental forces, etc. i can understand why you felt tantric to be fairly removed from earth-based work, though. i felt that myself in my limited experience with it. geomancy is more common in the chinese forms. ok, no help, but i thought you might be interested. b/b ========= rorschach ========= --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [4296] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 04-19-90 To: Bill Moore Time: 11:17 Subject: Re: "Dan and Deanna" Advocate Newsletter Previous Reply: 1419 BM>Cult Watch and BM>you have just proven the christian communitys worst fears. BM> Altho prepared with A-1 Sauce. Hmmmmm makes you kinda wonder about w.c. fields' religious preferences, doesn't it? "sure, i like children. i like them par-boiled" b/b ========= rorschach ========= (it's a joke, for goddess's sake! a joke!!) --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [4395] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-17-90 To: Ammond Shadowcraft Time: 08:04 Subject: Re: No activity on Magicknet? SeeAalso: 4884 In a message to All <04-16-90 18:51> Ammond Shadowcraft wrote: > > There has been no activity on magicknet for 9 days. Anyone > know what is happening? I have over 250 msgs in the same period, suggest you have a feed problem? B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [4396] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-13-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 15:15 Subject: Creation Myths MSGID: 1:280/901 468f39c8 I think that part of the point in modern Wicca is that creation myths are generally reckognized as such; and we're widely aware of myths from other religions and cultures, so it's kind of open to any myth you like. Probably the most legitimately Wiccan mythos would be the Welsh Mabinogion. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4397] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-17-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 12:39 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 1440 SeeAalso: 4404 In a message to Kacey Carlson <04-15-90 10:25> Aga Windwalker wrote: > irritant. Common > sense should tell you that Alcohol irritates that eye, and > since alcohol is > a primary ingredient in this particular brand of cologne, > it should not > be necessary to test it on an animal. I quite agree. I don't advocate all testing either, nor do I advocate NO testing. I advocate SANE and UNAVOIDABLE and MERCIFUL testing, and I agree that there's a lot going on out there that is none of the above. I think many companies do too much unnecesary stuff, like your example above, and am more than willing to boycott those I hear about, along with (when I have time) writing letters to tell them I am doing so. I think the activity you've chosen -- i.e. in honor of EarthDay writing letters to companies which do unnecessary testing -- is a terriffic one. As a happy sidelight, I was informed once that since so few people write letters about things like that to congressmen, businesses and the like, those letters which are received are considered representative of the opinions of about a thousand people who _don't_ get a chance to write. So while to you it's one letter, to them it's a representative of a thousand constituents/customers. I was very encouraged by that. Hope you are too. Meanwhile, keep up the good work! -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4398] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-17-90 To: Randy Alexander Time: 12:49 Subject: Re: BISEXUALS Previous Reply: 1433 SeeAalso: 4892 > Hey! That's well put! May I use that when trying so settle > arguments? (I'm BI Too!) Absolutely. There were any number of very well-put arguments made by any number of people during that unfortunate discussion. I'll give you my bottom-line argument for Pagan listeners, for one thing because the participators in that thread were chastised for the concept's unrelated nature to Wicca. So here it is: the final tie back to the topic of the board: I love the Goddess as part of myself. I also love the God as part of myself. Both the Lord and the Lady are my teachers, parents, patrons, deities, friends and lovers. I find it very easy, therefore, to love also and in as many different ways the representatives of the Lady and Lord here on this plane. All are beautiful. All wear the face of the Goddess and God for me. That's not so much a rational argument for either side as it is an efficient way to describe myself and my preferences to those of Pagan background. Hope it's useful to you too... Blessed be, -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4399] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-17-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 13:14 Subject: HPF Previous Reply: 1421 In a message to Missed Who <04-16-90 01:17> Moon Puppy wrote: > to these public festivals. Do you find them a "working" > event or a social event? I have been to Esotericons, > all of them but admit that I am mostly there for the social > aspect... I do appreciate the difficulty of organizing the I, for one, have been astounded by the spiritual growth I experience at these gatherings. Notably, HPF last year, during which time I went through enormous and long-lasting changes about which I am still very pleased. I honestly thought that with that much diversity, just as in the various Sabbatsmeets for the four main holidays, I would be too distracted to get any really significant personal work done. That wouldn't have necessarily been bad; I think it's very worthwhile just to go and get "rejuiced" by the atmosphere :) ... But I'm ready for another amazing experience this year; am taking part in more activities than last year and I'm VERY excited. So I guess the real answer to your question is "yes". :) All of the above. Both. And other indecisive and exuberant comments... Hope to see you there! Blessed be, -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4400] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-17-90 To: Robin Hood Time: 13:41 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 1438 SeeAalso: 4401 MSGID: 1:280/901 488da1c5 > Death as a woman eh? > There you> are, a whole host of women deaths. > Is this what you were asking for? Well, not really. Those are for the most part either "Queen of the Dead" myths, "Power of Death", "Choser of Dead", "Guide of Souls" stuff. I'm looking for good ol' Ms. Grim Reaper herself, comes out in black with the scythe and puts the touch of death on you, etc. I suppose the Norns/Fates would count, as they measure out a life and clip the thread, but I'm realy after a reference to "Death" personified as "She". --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4401] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-17-90 To: Mike Nichols Time: 13:42 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 4400 SeeAalso: 4403 MSGID: 1:280/901 488db3e9 > RE: Death as female... > > Not a legend in the traditional sense, but there IS a > wonderful short > story by Algernon Blackwood in which Death is > personified by an attractive young woman spotted > across the dance floor by an older man. To his > surprise, she approaches him and asks him to dance. > And in the middle of the dance, he begins to notice > something strange about his surroundings and he > figures out who she is. A really pretty story. Exactly what I was after, but looking for historical mythos rather than literature. Could you tell me where this story was printed? --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4402] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-17-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 13:44 Subject: Re: Hpf '90 Previous Reply: 1330 MSGID: 1:280/901 488db9b8 > got a call from Rhi' last night ... a bit concerned > that she hadn't received my registration, if you see > her, do assure her that the proverbial check is in the > mail .... We hear more unpleasant rumors on her plans to make a political statement with the "Pagan" Fest. Will pass your message while investigating. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4403] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-17-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 13:46 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 4401 SeeAalso: 4406 MSGID: 1:280/901 488dc0a6 > > * can anyone tell me of any legends where death is > female > look east, young man .... Yes, well, everything but American Indian would be East, no? > - two that immediately come to mind, the morrigan > (macha, nemon, badbh), WHich culture? (I should know, but the brain is lazy today.) and kali Is she "Death", or goddess of destruction? --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4404] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-17-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 13:53 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 4397 SeeAalso: 4405 MSGID: 1:280/901 488dc7bf REPLY: 1:109/120 262762fa Like I said, Steve, TANSTAAFL. The only way to truely reduce the human impact is to reduce the human number. > While granted, we may not be able to live life > without harming the environment, we have to at least > make an effort! And for the effort we make to have an impact, it must be a well informed effort. To many people want simple answers, and the environment is too complex a subject for that. _Informed_ actions, that consider and address the social, economic, environmental, and yes, political impact of _all_ possible alternatives have had a great effect on what happens. Blind, reactionary actions against the very people who are actually making some of the differences only serve to "prove" that environmentalists are "just old wacko hippies". > ... given the choice, I am still > going to use a product which didn't require the lives > of critters to produce. There _are_ soaps, shampoos, > etc. which are made by environmentally concious > companies ... And how much of their formulation is based on work done by companies that _did_ do the animal testing REQUIRED BY THE FDA? (Hint: It wouldn't be legal to sell if someone hadn't performed the tests.) --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4405] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-17-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 13:57 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 4404 SeeAalso: 4891 MSGID: 1:280/901 488de588 > One of the companies that I wrote to tested > colognes on animals. Explain > to me why you need to put alcohol in an animals eyes > to prove that it is > an eye irritant. Chances are, if it was an irritant > before, it isn't going > to change any time soon........ It's necessary to establish what level of concentration and application can cause harm (not just irritation). What if a scent ingredient in a cologn dramatically increased the risk of corneal scarring? Wouldn't you want to find out _before_ you sold it to humans? > Finally, I went back to soap and brush, A fine, traditional ritual, highly portable, and not requiring any aerosol propellant. I find it more comfortable too. I think the "breaking out" may be a function of the creams letting one shave _too_ close. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4406] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-17-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 14:00 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 4403 SeeAalso: 4407 MSGID: 1:280/901 488dfcaa REPLY: 1:101/192 26295434 Thanks for the info on the Female Death in "modern mythos". Good to know. Any idea if it traces to a specific culture? (I find a lot of Comic/Fiction mythology goes straight for subconcious archtypes.) --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4407] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-17-90 To: Paul Hume Time: 14:03 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 4406 SeeAalso: 4417 MSGID: 1:280/901 488e0591 > The only mythology with personified Death-Gods that > uses women in that role (that Ican think of offhand) > is teutonic. Valkyries, the choosers of the slain, > are women. Hel, ruler of the underworld where the > non- > Valhalla-bound dead go is female. Well, to quibble (and be clearer about what I'm looking for), The Valkyries chose souls _after_ they're dead; and as you say, Hel is the Queen of the Dead, not Death herself. > Not a lot of cultures personify Death as such, the way > euro-american culture does. Yes. I believe a lot of our western personifications come from the age of the Black Death (as Poe's Masque of the Red Death). --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4408] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-17-90 To: Mike Nichols Time: 15:44 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 1343 SeeAalso: 4411 Hey that sort of makes sense! Its hard for the human mind to comprehend infinity though. If you think too hard about something existing without ever having a beginning you will get REALLY confused. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4409] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-17-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 15:46 Subject: Re: THE BEGINNING Previous Reply: 1373 SeeAalso: 4410 I think I might need to alter my thinking processes or patterns a little to be able to understand all this totally abstract stuff. I can say one thing, Wicca is unique. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4410] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-17-90 To: Amergin O'Kai Time: 15:48 Subject: Re: THE BEGINNING Previous Reply: 4409 SeeAalso: 4939 > Or, better yet, write your own! It seems like that's how all my philosophies were formed. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4411] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-17-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 15:50 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 4408 SeeAalso: 4418 I think I'll see if I can find those books laying around somewhere. If nothing else they sound interesting. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4412] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-17-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 15:52 Subject: Re: Creation Myths SeeAalso: 4902 > Probably the most legitimately Wiccan mythos would be > the Welsh Mabinogion. Sorry, I'm not familiar with it. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4413] From: Fr. Ens Date: 04-17-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 08:48 Subject: The Void EID:d649 14914603 There seems to be a genuine Void that is *empty that the Taoist talk about. What can you tell me about that. There is Ain of the Kaballah. What can you tell me about that. What do the Hindu Avaita Vedantists have that is like unto the Void...para-Atman, perhaps? What do the Buddhists have that parellels Maya. I have heard a Buddhist say that it is all emptiness, anyway. What does he mean by that? Is he talking about Sunnyatta or something else. --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [4414] From: Fifth Warrior Date: 04-18-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 00:17 Subject: Re: child ethics Previous Reply: 1295 SeeAalso: 4415 The most important thing to do is not to threaten the kid further. If the kid feels threatened he only becomes stronger in his rebellion. And beliefe out of spite will only hurt the kid. >>>The Fifth Warrior<<< --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4415] From: Fifth Warrior Date: 04-18-90 To: Amergin O'Kai Time: 00:26 Subject: Re: child ethics Previous Reply: 4414 SeeAalso: 7253 I'm surprised that their really adults that are from the "old school" That react that way to anything. I admit my main opening to Christianity was the southern baptist(boarding school, Evagelist youth), but still to be that closed I believe is a little harsh. >>>The Fifth Warrior<<< --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4416] From: Fifth Warrior Date: 04-18-90 To: the Bard Time: 00:32 Subject: Re: CyberCraft Spirituality SeeAalso: 4899 The Only mod I would like would be to get a tap from my brain to an I/O jack. One that would allow me to tap directly with computers, robots,ect. Can you imagine what a program must look like from the inside?! >>>The Fifth Warrior<<< --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4417] From: Mike Nichols Date: 04-18-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 01:45 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 4407 SeeAalso: 4422 > Could you tell me where the story was printed? Well, THAT sent me scrambling to my bookshelves. I haven't had this one off the shelf in years. But I found it! As follows: "Dance of Death" by Algernon Blackwood. Contained in: "Dark Imaginings : A Collection of Gothis Fantasy / edited by Robert h. Boyer & Kenneth J. Zahorshi. New York: Dell, c1978." --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4418] From: Mike Nichols Date: 04-18-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 01:48 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 4411 SeeAalso: 4886 > It's hard for the human mind to comprehend infinity though. Well, one trick I use is to only think of HALF of infinity. Then I double it. :) --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4419] From: Joseph Teller Date: 04-17-90 To: All Time: 16:13 Subject: alive and well.... EID:1f70 149181bc MSGID: 1:101/192 262b79d2 Just to let folks here know I am still alive and physically well, though our finances prevent me from being heavily involved in FIDOs echos. Wonderland BBS still lives at 508-663-6200 and has a sister node at 617-899-7570. Finances are still bad here, but we will strive to continue to help the Pagan Community and the folks here in the dying ship-of-state of Massachusetts (now over $1 billion in debt with the courts backlogged 8 months for bankruptcies public and private). We still have lots of files to trade, and as always can use financial aide from anyone who is willing to help. Mailing address is: Joseph Teller 40 Allen Rd., Billerica MA 01821 Blessed Be! Joe --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: NPI I (617) 593-0081 Lynn, MA 01904 (1:101/192.0) Message Number: [4420] From: Moon Puppy Date: 04-17-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 18:25 Subject: Tell me more please EID:1f70 14919338 MSGID: 1:101/192 262b9a1c Well since I sent a message to you that I consider doggeral, let me try again. I am not trying to insult four legged wolves. I am in an urban area and do not get to see real four legs. I am being serious in my observations of the two legged people who claim or use the wolf as a totem. They tell me and show me what they are...I'm trying to sort out what they wish and what IS in this matter. Again, chidcare is a very important topic to this area. Please tell us how foour legged people do this. It may give us all an insight for our own younger ones. How do you find your animal. Did you always know or is it something that you suddenly learned? I'd like to learn more and this is the place. Later MP waiting for leave to sprout. --- Opus-CBCS 1.10 * Origin: NPI I (617) 593-0081 Lynn, MA 01904 (1:101/192.0) Message Number: [4421] From: Jeanette Wilson Date: 04-12-90 To: Roger Loomis Time: 13:19 Subject: Re: Enlighten me. EID:b131 148c6a71 Well I have been a Wiccian for over 15 years and just started my Druid studies a year ago, and I can say YES to magick beening in spells. As for Cystals they do work there are like a storage battery to put your magic (engery) into. as for the working tools (cup, wand, sword, etc.) they are symbols and a focus for you maid. To do spells (spells can = prayers, they are the same thing just different forms) you need to put you mind in the proper mode and like the church rituals they put you into the proper mood and mind set to call on the Lord and Lady(or whatever you are calling on) to do you magick. As for cystals you program them for what you want, Like a computer. and until you tell them to stop they will do it forever. They can also mess up like a computer disc if it get to near a magnet. --- * Origin: The Astro-Net. Love Your Wife Before Someone Else Does! (Opus 1:103/903) Message Number: [4422] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-18-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 02:47 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 4417 SeeAalso: 4887 EID:a18d 149215e2 GfFI! (Gods I'm getting lazy...:-D) To quote Robert Graves: "It is no coincidence that the words 'womb' and 'tomb' rhyme." BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [4423] From: Electra Star Date: 04-18-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 03:51 Subject: Must be Something I typed. EID:a18d 14921e77 Dear Paul, I guess I goofed Maybe I meant I sometimes feel like an older woman or maybe the computer was affecting my brain funny, but other than that I`m just 23. Your right The Star Crystal does sound a bit New Age-ish, but Its alot better than Star Crest, (No Strange Phones calls to your friends about dairy products or Sausages). Electra Star --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [4435] From: Scott Schaefer Date: 04-18-90 To: All Time: 19:25 Subject: COVEN PLACEMENT Iam looking to be accepted by a LONG ISLAND coven, if you have any info please call SCOTT SCHAEFER at 516 568 3161 collect of course blessed be, Scott --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [4884] From: Simon Waters Date: 04-18-90 To: Ammond Shadowcraft Time: 00:44 Subject: Re: No activity on Magicknet? Previous Reply: 4395 SeeAalso: 4897 EID:7219 14920581 MSGID: 1:109/120 262bf100 > AS: There has been no activity on magicknet for 9 days. Anyone know > AS: what is happening? yes, the topology is rather buggered as brad is dropping out and people are scrambling to rearrange links. means lost msgs, dupe loops, etc.... --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [4885] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-18-90 To: Electra Star Time: 01:07 Subject: Re: ME TOO!!! Previous Reply: 1424 EID:f7a4 149208fd MSGID: 1:109/120 262bf677 "Oh no!" they cried in exasperation, "not the CAT LADY!!!" :-) Seriously, welcome aboard; we hope to see more of you in these parts! -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [4886] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-18-90 To: Tiffany Hall-Graham Time: 01:09 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 4418 SeeAalso: 4890 EID:0f5a 14920939 MSGID: 1:109/120 262bf90b I read "The Power Of Myth" not too long ago, and enjoyed it myself. By the way, I found a great book this afternoon for those of you who enjoy a delightfully frustrating, bang-your-head-against-the-wall type of read: "Confronting the New Age", by Douglas Groothuis. The description on the back of this thing led me to believe it was going to be a text describing the ways new-age noise and pseudoscience are being passed off as hard science by some, but I couldn't have been more wrong. Consider this, from the introduction: "After outlining New Age religion and pointing out its nature as a counterfeit faith...he puts his finger on the festering ulcer of the penetration of New Age thinking into the American educational system." Yes, everybody gets what's coming to them here, from Ursula de Guin to Dungeons & Dragons to "The Karate Kid" to that great musical heretic, Kitaro. Granted, the arguments here go a little bit beyond scriptural references, but all in all, this is a must-have for when the bookstore is out of Bob Larson... -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [4887] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-18-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 01:22 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 4422 SeeAalso: 4905 EID:f7a4 14920acb MSGID: 1:109/120 262bfa45 Egad, now our children can't even read comic books without being exposed to the Evil Pagan Menace! :-) Seriously, it is amusing to see the portrayal of mythological figures in pop culture, be it comics or other media (I saw a videogame a while back where your protagonist does battle with the evil demon Baal. 8-) ) Besides, after pouring over pages of Norse mythology texts, absolutely nothing beats a cold soda and a "Thor" comic! -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [4888] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-18-90 To: All Time: 01:28 Subject: Dreams SeeAalso: 9046 EID:f7a4 14920b9a MSGID: 1:109/120 262bfb4d Last night, I had a very unusual experience during a dream, which I am at a loss to explain, and hope someone knowledgeable about these things might be able to give me some insights. The dream in question began normally (well, as far as dreams go); I was driving around with a friend, when I spotted a woman who looked very attractive, who was walking alongside the road. I hesitated asking her if she needed a ride, but before I could, she met up with a friend, so I shrugged my shoulders and let it rest. Eventually, I ended up at a shopping mall, where it so happened the woman in question had arrived at nearly the same time. Coincidence also had it that my friend and her friend both needed to go make a "pit stop". I decided to seize this oppurtunity, and set about trying to find where she had seated herself in a busy "food court" area, but before I could locate her, another woman walked up to me and said hello. This second woman did not espescially appeal to me on first glance, but being the friendly fellow I am, I stopped and chatted with her for a moment, surprised to find she appeared to be a rather interesting person. It was at this point the aforementioned Weird Phenomenon occured: in the course of talking to this woman, I was overcome, on a couple of occassions, with an eerie feeling that it was a real, live person I was talking to, rather than a dream character. The closest I can come to describing this sensation is that I received a gut message from my mind to the effect of "you're dreaming, and she should _not_ have said that." A couple minutes later, I found myself engaging in some mild activities not suitable for this echo (nudge, nudge), and in the course of such, experienced definite physical sensation, again to the point where I could feel my mind telling me "this is _too_ vivid for a dream." I have had both wet dreams and lucid dreams in the past, and this was far more vivid than either. The only explanation for these occurances I can come up with is that somehow someone astrally projected themself into my dream. I am not convinced of this theory, but I am at a loss provide another hypothesis. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [4889] From: Brigid Dragonchild Date: 04-17-90 To: All Time: 20:09 Subject: TEST MESSAGE Dallas is online...please respond... Brigid Dragonchild --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [4890] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-18-90 To: Mike Nichols Time: 16:35 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 4886 SeeAalso: 4946 > Well, one trick I use is to only think of HALF of infinity. > Then I double it. Thanks A LOT. B-) s --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4891] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-17-90 To: Lady Polgara Time: 18:31 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 4405 SeeAalso: 4894 MSGID: 1:280/901 48927229 RE: "The Green Consumer." > For example, it has a list of cruelty free > cosmetic manufacturers (they do no animal testing) How nice. By licensing the formulas that _other_ companies _have_already_tested_ to the FDA's satisfaction, they are able to rook holier-than-thou environmentalists into supporting an extra middleman. > The book lists addresses for > alternate sources of paper supplies, or manufacturers > who do not use virgin paper (which tends to be whiter > than recycled paper). Recycled paper, on the other hand, has been determined by a number of sources (including, I believe, the Sierra Club) to cause more harm to the environment during re-processing than virgin paper does (counting harvesting the trees). Is anyone reading Doonesbury these days? --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4892] From: Artemis Lupa Date: 04-18-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 20:22 Subject: Re: BISEXUALS Previous Reply: 4398 SeeAalso: 4940 MSGID: 1:280/901 49145bd7 > I > love the Goddess as part of myself. I also love the > God as part of myself. Both the Lord and the Lady are > my teachers, parents, patrons, deities, friends and > lovers. I find it very easy, therefore, to love also > and in as many different ways the representatives of > the Lady and Lord here on this plane. All are > beautiful. All wear the face of the Goddess and God > for me. "All acts of love and pleasure are my rituals." --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4893] From: Artemis Lupa Date: 04-18-90 To: Randy Alexander Time: 20:27 Subject: To those in the Craft with children... Previous Reply: 1435 MSGID: 1:280/901 49146c45 > Well we just make all the options open and try to keep > our daughter from being brainwashed by the Christian > Fundies..She's only 3 so there's not a whole lot we > can do at the moment... Children take in everything from birth ( and before?). It's never too early to intrduce them to nature and the wonders of magic and the tolerance of others. "As the tree would grow ..... " --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4894] From: Artemis Lupa Date: 04-18-90 To: Robin Culain Time: 21:08 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 4891 SeeAalso: 4930 MSGID: 1:280/901 49148315 REPLY: 1:109/120 26291f8b > Obviously the situations involving disease research > are much more difficult and ethically ambiguous. Perhaps I can address this since I do medical research for a living and have worked also in a veterinary pharmaceutical company. > One thing does occur to me, however. I personally > believe that blood sacrifice is both effective and > devastatingly harmful to the practicioner as well as > the victim. Why do you people persist in being so stupid? Don't you even study your own purported religion? Sacrifice, in it's pure and original form is/ was the acknowledgement and honoring of the life that is taken ( of dire necessity, often) to allow another life or lives to continue. It is deeply moving, sorrowful, joyous, miraculous, and powerful. No one can who is sane and aware can take a life without feeling the horrible loss and peace of the act. Hunters know all these things. Those who slaughter their own food animals also know this. We in research sometimes have a harder time because the lives sacrificed (this term is used in the scientific publications, and I believed is used sincerely) seem a very long way from the lives that will be saved. In industry, much testing is required by law. Because it is so expensive, unpopular (we love life, too, or we wouldn't be working in a field that pays so badly), and time consuming, animal testing is replaced whenever an in vitro method can be found that will satisfy all safety and government standards. No one in research wants to work with animals. They are biological systems subject to diurnal variations, nutritional fluctuations, stress-induced weirdness, and general cussedness. I'd much rather use lawyers. But some diseases can't be studied any other way, and if we knew all the answers, it wouldn't be research. The scientific community is very aware of all these things, but it takes time. I grieve for the rats (most noble of animals), mice, and rabbits, and elsewhere for the other creatures. Their lives do not passed unmarked nor unhonored. Sorry for the sermon. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [4895] From: SysOp 114/29 Date: 04-17-90 To: Amergin O'kai Time: 11:16 Subject: Validation EID:b7b2 14915a19 You are validated on the BBS named below. Welcome! --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [4896] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-17-90 To: Randy Alexander Time: 23:39 Subject: Brainwashed kids SeeAalso: 6839 EID:b7b2 1491bce2 Someone on the CultWatch insists that his son "accepted Jesus Christ" days before his third birthday. Some kindly soul pointed out that a three year old would be just as likely to "accept" the Easter bunny or Santa. What I'm going to do with Cory is introduce him to nature, let him get to know the earth and nature and realize that you can't go around trashing the planet and that you have to have reverance for life. Does that make me a hypocrite if I still eat Quarter Pounders? Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [4897] From: steve rose Date: 04-18-90 To: Ammond Shadowcraft Time: 09:10 Subject: Re: No activity on Magicknet? Previous Reply: 4884 SeeAalso: 4908 > There has been no activity on magicknet for 9 days. Anyone > know what is happening? Hicks is giving up the ghost in a couple of weeks. Anyone wanna take the Trio Distribution over? Now's the chance. --- D'Bridge 1.30/001770 * Origin: *ABySS BBS* WASHDC (1:109/134) Message Number: [4898] From: Epona Star Date: 04-19-90 To: All Time: 04:09 Subject: Everything SeeAalso: 6840 EID:a394 1493212a Just wanted to drop a line to everyone and say Hi, I'm here. I have recently begun studing Wicca, though in many ways it feels like I have always been there, I'm sure most of you know what I mean. Anyway, I've read most of the basic stuff and am looking for new and expanded reading material, something beyond rituals and basic thoery/belief practices. I've always felt drawn to the Celtic and Druidic practices so any suggestions would be appreciated. Also, what are some good periodicals to get, besides Green Egg and Circle Network News, we need something that will get us more in tune to the festivals going on around the country and in our own backyard. Thanks for the help, I really enjoy the different things going on in this area and have learned alot already. Blessed Be, Epona Star --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [4899] From: steve rose Date: 04-18-90 To: Fifth Warrior Time: 18:45 Subject: Re: CyberCraft Spirituality Previous Reply: 4416 SeeAalso: 4900 > directly with computers, robots,ect. Can you imagine what a > program must look like from the inside?! Probably similar to what a gorgious body might look like from the inside. |*) --- D'Bridge 1.30/001770 * Origin: *ABySS BBS* WASHDC (1:109/134) Message Number: [4900] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-19-90 To: Fifth Warrior Time: 03:08 Subject: Re: CyberCraft Spirituality Previous Reply: 4899 SeeAalso: 4906 EID:f7a4 14931914 MSGID: 1:109/120 262d6583 While I will confess to a deadly fear of my humanity being enveloped by machine (yes, I see some of you out there scoffing!), I will admit that an I/O jack in the brain would be a nifty trick. I wouldn't be so much as interested in tying my conciousness with that of a computer; prefering to use such a device as a tool to vastly streamline the creative process. I often compose music in my head while trying to fall asleep; imagine being able to wake up in the morning with the end result on CD! There was a scene in the novel "Alien" (upon which the film was based) which spoke of famous people selling their cybernetically recorded dreams as an entertainment medium. Granted, Hollywood has put out some neat films, but not a one has come close to the unbridled potential of raw imagination... -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [4901] From: Lance Lyon Date: 04-18-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 15:47 Subject: Re: testing Previous Reply: 1400 In a message to Lance Lyon <04-15-90 09:56> Paul Seymour wrote: PS >Sure! Many of us have enjoyed the participation here by PS >the folks "down under" and look forward to it again. PS >Besides, the wider the distribution you have, the harder it PS >will be to "break the link" again! Mmm, but I'm not sure who else would be willing to carry the cost if I dropped.... Just an observation: In my three month absense, it appears that this echo has more than doubled in size.. very good! Lance. --- QuickBBS 2.64 & FD 1.99c [RT] * Origin: Avalon - -= Ars Magica =- (28:200/0) Message Number: [4902] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-19-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 19:07 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 4412 SeeAalso: 4911 EID:c6f4 149398fb and what makes the Mabinogion any more valid as a wiccan source than the Irish Leabhear Gabhala or the Tain bo Couilneigh (sp? ... it's gaelic, so who would know if you hadn't mentioned it ....) at the very least they are equal and contemporaries, though some of the Irish creation myths are far earlier and more complex than their brythonic counterparts (that and gaelics a lot easier to pronounce than brythonic ....) bw - granted the Tain is a bit more 'historical' than the Mab' .... but has the Mab' ever had a celtic rock-n-roll epic done about it, how about a celtic symphony (reference: Horselips - 'Book of Invasions' and 'The Tain') .... i suppose "Rhiannon" gets honorable mention pardon while i wax obscure ..... --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [4903] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-19-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 19:14 Subject: ... and all HPF pilgrims EID:c6f4 149399cd i'll be up from central Tejas, perhaps with others ... do introduce yourselves if you see me (easy to spot 6'ish feet tall, beard, full mustache, *long* hair (reddish brown), probably plaited in some interesting pattern, loads of silver on the left side - wolf icons at ear and finger, dragon at throat (torc'ed) and wrist, knotwork on finger and wrist, a skull or two here and there, a labris, pentacle, dragon mounted quartz .... the usual jewelry package, fondness for fatigues, interesting t-shirts (dragons/skulls/wolves/ .....) and a hatred of shoes. if there's drumming going on, look for the guy with the *big* drum .... or if it's quite, look up in the trees for a hammock (bet you didn't know that wolves were aborial did you ...) if all else fails, have Rhiannon point me out .... bw - if there's room might haul my mountain bike up and check out there area --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [4904] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-19-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 19:22 Subject: Morrigan SeeAalso: 4912 EID:c6f4 14939acc Irish tri-partate goddess of death and the battlefield ... badbh - often in here shape-shifted form of a great black raven, having a fondness for being the patroness of great hero's (see: Cuchulain and the Tain) ... nemon - the "shrieker", she who keens for the slain, often heard on the wind .... macha - the great warrior aspect (also the name of several of the historical and literary warrior-queens of ireland). interesting side-note .... if you ever come upon a beutiful woman washing bloody clothes at a ford, look closely - if they are yours, you have been claimed by the badbh in her more human form. for a wonderful fictional telling of the great irish legends, give Morgan Llywelyn's work a try ... her latest _The Red Branch_, is a very good fictional rendition of the irish Tain. very well researched and solidly based .... bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [4905] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-19-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 19:59 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 4887 SeeAalso: 4943 EID:2fb5 14939f65 i've encountered an interesting death-form in some of my mediatations that you might be interested in ... once her form was known as Lillith, but as the world has changed so has she. now she has blended aspects with her later incarnations (if we can reincarnate, why can't god/ess-forms?) to become a darker, Morrigan - Kali'esque entity that thrives in the shadows that mark the dark underside of the modern world - a place that is a reflection of the deep collective conscious of our people in real-time ... she is a stalker who is at home amongst the machinery and desolation found on the 'frontiers' of the modern world. this frontier being the "borderland" that could be said to lie between the world of the common and that of the numinous. it is a place populated by the poets, artists, warriors, ... all those who flee the mediocrity of the common world, a realm of refugees looking for the crack bewteen the worlds that will allow them to escape (in Castenda's terms - slipping past the Eagle). often i see her in the shadows of the darkest clubs or brushing past as i ride in the night. when i seek my awen (the divine inspiration that is the gift of these powers) i know it is she who listens and bestows upon me the gift of creativity at her whim. i can hear her call most strongly from the that within me that i am most attuned to - the nebulous interface between here and 'dreamtime' (i'm very much a Jungian) and it is from this other side of ourselves that i draw my strengths, and she is there to guide me when i need here, a dark mistress - but a very powerful one. a worthy companion for those of us who ride with the Hunt when called bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [4906] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-19-90 To: Fifth Warrior Time: 20:00 Subject: Re: CyberCraft Spirituality Previous Reply: 4900 SeeAalso: 4910 EID:c6f4 1493a005 simple fix .... neural shunts (ic 'chips' inserted between severed nerve ends and re-programmed to re-establish the information flow ... with third output - shut flow and shift to external i/o ...) mix with cyber-gloves or suits and fast GaAs processor-based system (with massive holographic storage systems) the future is near and it looks to be *real* interesting .... think of the possilities for those of us are waiting impatiently for the decks that will allow us to create cyber-wiccan interface sw (care to meet my interpretation of the god/ess forms of the Tuahtha de Danann or take a visit to Annwfnn .... or perhaps a ride with Nuada and the wild Hunt) bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [4907] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-19-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 20:15 Subject: Four Legged Child Care EID:c6f4 1493a1f1 simple ... in wolf-dom, there are no orphans. cubs are always welcome, tolerated, cared for, and raised by the pack in communal effort. in a tribe, a new member - especially a hunter - is always an asset needed to replace casualties of age, accident, and conflict. also as your tribe grows, so grows your power and influnence (via area of control). one side note, when a wolf population reaches the limit of what their environment can support (physical limitations of area or decrease in available prey species) the birth rate drops off until a balance is restored. the only time that there is an overpopulation in wolf-kind is when some natural 'disaster' (usually man) suddenly decimates the species that the wolf depends upon for food ... often driving them out of their established hunting areas and into conflict with civilization (by nature the wolf is human-shy and will retreat from man (a very sensible beast) as to how i learned what my power animal was - i listen inward bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [4908] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-19-90 To: steve rose Time: 08:28 Subject: Re: No activity on Magicknet? Previous Reply: 4897 In a message to Ammond Shadowcraft <04-18-90 09:10> steve rose wrote: > > There has been no activity on magicknet for 9 days. > Anyone > > know what is happening? > > > Hicks is giving up the ghost in a couple of weeks. Anyone > wanna take the Trio Distribution over? Now's the chance. Since I am already "Hubbing" all the rest of the magical/metaphysical/etc. echoes to 21 nodes and two countries and continents, I have started "Hubbing the trio for NM, CO, Tx, AZ, and SoCal., will add any one else interested. I split my PCP bill amongst those who are pursuitable (according to volume) to help keep costs down. If any are interested, let me know! B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [4909] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-20-90 To: Randall Terpstra Time: 07:35 Subject: Re: Thuggee, Thagi or Kali Worship SeeAalso: 5375 EID:c6f4 14943c7a sounds like another 'urban myth' with a nasty anti-occult/pagan twist to it .... especially considering the genesis point - there has never been any love lost between Oregon and the Rajnesshie bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [4910] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-20-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 07:39 Subject: Re: CyberCraft Spirituality Previous Reply: 4906 SeeAalso: 4945 EID:c6f4 14943cf0 actually, i look foreward to my humanity being enhanced by being 'surrounded' by a machine ... tools are tools, that's what opposable thumbs are for bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [4911] From: Aethelred Carlile Date: 04-19-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 19:18 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 4902 SeeAalso: 4938 In a message to Silver Claw <04-13-90 15:15> Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > Probably the most legitimately Wiccan mythos would be the > Welsh Mabinogion. Some time back I acquired an album of incedental music for a dramatization of the Mabinoginion by Robin Williams (The Incredible String Band &c.) Have you heard about this production? I think it may have been on the BBC... I've been meaning to look up a translation of the origional myths, but haven't got arround to it yet. - AEthelred --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4912] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-19-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 23:17 Subject: Morrigan Previous Reply: 4904 EID:b7b2 1493ba20 I've seen the Morrigan (and her aspects, Macha and Badbh-hadn't heard of Nemon being related to the Morrigan) mentioned in several books which draw on Irish mythology. And I've always heard of the Morrigan as a war goddess, not really Death itself. If you have the time, why don't you try to read "The Red Branch" by Morgan Llewellyn. It has to do with Cuchulain, the Champion of Ulster and the story is drawn from Irish myth and both the Morrigan and Nemon are mentioned in it. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [4913] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-19-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 23:26 Subject: New Books EID:b7b2 1493bb4f I've been on a book buying frenzy (some people do drugs, I do books) and I picked up something called "Witchcraft: The Old Religion" by Dr. Leo Louis Martello. It's fairly interesting, so far, but I haven't gotten very into it because I'm in the middle of reading two other books. This bookcover says,"Dr. Martello is an initiated Witch and elder in three other witch traditions besides his own. His views as both theorist and activist have often been controversial. He is founder of the Witches Liberation Movement, director of WICA (Witches International Craft Associates) and the Witches Anti-Defamation League." Some of what he says sounds a little bit like reversed Christian arguments...you're all going "Huh?". When I get back into reading it, I'll let you know what I mean. Has anyone else read this? Any comments? Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [4914] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-19-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 23:33 Subject: Re: Dreams SeeAalso: 9049 EID:b7b2 1493bc21 How come *I* never have dreams like that? I always have the "Oh-no-I'm- out-in-public-with-no-clothes-on" type dreams. I've never had dreams like what you're describing, although I have had many dreams and had a very strong deja vu sense about them. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [4930] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-19-90 To: Simon Waters Time: 08:58 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 4894 SeeAalso: 4931 SW> i've got an even better way - don't shave! :-{)# SW> Only one small problem. I look like a bum if I don't shave!!!! -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [4931] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-19-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 09:01 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 4930 SeeAalso: 4944 KC> thousand constituents/customers. I was very encouraged by that. KC> Hope you are too. Meanwhile, keep up the good work! -k- Why, thank you! Ah believe ah am blushing!!! :-) (actually, I'm not alone in this. My whole FAMILY got involved, and so did several of my friends. Blessed Be! -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [4932] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-19-90 To: All Time: 09:06 Subject: Town of Wiccans? At some point in time, someone told me that in Northeast Florida there was a township that was almost ENTIRELY New Age/Wicca. I never heard anything after that. My question is, is it true? If so, have any of you been there? I'd like to go one day, but I haven't the foggist where (and if it exists) it is. Thanks!!! Blessed Be! -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [4936] From: Carol-Sue Mcilhargey Date: 04-19-90 To: Mark Ad Time: 22:12 Subject: Just to say hi EID:aa6d 1493b184 Mark, We've missed you at Modem magic Wicca discussions. Is everything ok? Just leave a message to me here or at MM. How are your studies going? Well, that's all for now. Tatiana. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [4937] From: Tsofeh Mashkif Date: 04-20-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 16:21 Subject: Brainwashed Kids EID:be0b 149482a0 MSGID: 1:104/11.3 4a10541e > What I'm going to do with Cory is introduce him to nature, > let him get to know the earth and nature and realize that > you can't go around trashing the planet and that you have > to have reverance for life. Does that make me a hypocrite > if I still eat Quarter Pounders? Only if you do it behind his back. --- ZMailQ 1.10 @1:104/11.3 * Origin: Tsofeh Mashkif (1:104/11.3) Message Number: [4938] From: Mike Nichols Date: 04-20-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 13:28 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 4911 RE: The Tain I may have mentioned this on this echo before. If I have, please forgive. But... Have you read "Red Branch" by Morgain Llewellyn? I was VERY impressed. Somehow, the character of Cuchullain comes off very real and sympathetically. I mean, it's so hard to write about these larger-than-life characters and still have the reader care a fig what happens to them. But Llewellyn's Cuchullain suceeds wonderfully. (Also, the love scenes were a few notches about the usual, I thought.) --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4939] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-20-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 16:57 Subject: Re: THE BEGINNING Previous Reply: 4410 SeeAalso: 5804 > abstract stuff. I can say one thing, Wicca is unique. That it is. And as to altering yor t hinking process, I think that's really what exploration of spiritual stuff is all about; finding new and better ways to see/ deal with/ alter/ explain your "reality". The thing I like best about this religion is that we're allowed to admit and even take pride in the idea that our reality is flexible and self-designed. Turns out, it's a much more efficient and healthy way to live! ...end of enthusiastic overload for today... any time you wanna talk abstract stuff with another pilgrim like yourself, just gimme a call! -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4940] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-20-90 To: Artemis Lupa Time: 17:00 Subject: Re: BISEXUALS Previous Reply: 4892 > "All acts of love and pleasure are my rituals." > That's why I try to indulge in them as often as possible! And speaking of which, see you at Beltane! THanx for the invite. I'll be there with bells on --and possibly very little else... -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4941] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-20-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 17:04 Subject: Re: ... and all HPF pilgrims SeeAalso: 5806 I'll definitely try to find you. You can't miss Randy and I -- he's the large gorgeous longhaired barbarian-type, and I'm the redhead surgically grafted to him... Don't forget to do the Visionquest also; take an insider's tip -- It's going to be wonderful! See ya there... Blessed be, -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4942] From: Randy Niere Date: 04-20-90 To: Tanis Time: 18:49 Subject: Re: PANGUR BAN Previous Reply: 1365 SeeAalso: 5797 Where are you in the MidRealm? I have a lot of friends there, and not a few enemies. Do you know Master Moonwulf Starkravingmadasahatterson? He and I are old buddies from back in his and Zarina's reign... --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4943] From: Randy Niere Date: 04-20-90 To: Robin Hood Time: 19:14 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 4905 SeeAalso: 4950 To the discussion I would like to add the Goddesses Kali and Caliuch (sp) the crone Goddess of the Irish Celts. Kali is represented with a necklace of skulls. The other was a Sea Goddess if I remember correctly. perhaps the Banshee might also relate here. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4944] From: Randy Niere Date: 04-20-90 To: Paul Hume Time: 19:38 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 4931 SeeAalso: 5365 An important point about treatments tested on animals is that some of the treatments developed (esp. in my field Orthopedics) on animals wind up saving the lives of animals. They used to shoot every horse with a broken leg, now, some types of fractures can be healed. Guess how they developed these techniques. I myself have worked a day or two in the dog lab. I was able to gain knowledge and experience that made me a better Orthopedic Tech. The animals were treated humanely in both experimental technique and sacrifice. I wonder if PETA could persuade preditors without opposible thumbs to stop torturing their victims... Also, why just be concerned with heterotrophs, autotrophs die to make the products without animal material. (I'll be hunger striking until the last Aloe Vera plant is freed) The last Orthopedic Surgeon to do wide-spread initial testing on human subjects was a German in WWII named Wilhelm Kunschner. Only a number of sucessful patients/guinea pigs testifing at Nuremburg in his behalf kept his ass from teaching his neck its true weight. If, like many experiments, he'd failed initially, he'd have swung. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4945] From: Randy Niere Date: 04-20-90 To: Fifth Warrior Time: 19:46 Subject: Re: CyberCraft Spirituality Previous Reply: 4910 SeeAalso: 6465 In a message to the Bard <04-18-90 00:32> Fifth Warrior wrote: > The Only mod I would like would be to get a tap from my > brain to an I/O jack. One that would allow me to tap > directly with computers, robots,ect. Can you imagine what a > program must look like from the inside?! Just a lot of 1's and 0's.... not even hex... just - and _ if you get my drift... --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4946] From: Randy Niere Date: 04-20-90 To: Mike Nichols Time: 19:48 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 4890 SeeAalso: 6873 In a message to Silver Claw <04-18-90 01:48> Mike Nichols wrote: > Well, one trick I use is to only think of HALF of infinity. > Then I double it. Yeah, but can you do that and chew gum at the same time... I'll bet not! Bright Blessings Asclepios --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4947] From: Randy Niere Date: 04-20-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 19:56 Subject: Re: Brainwashed kids SeeAalso: 6464 In a message to Randy Alexander <04-17-90 23:39> Tiffany Hall-graham wrote: > reverance for life. Does that make me a hypocrite if I > still eat Quarter Pounders? The sad truth is... quarter pounders are not made of natural materials ;} --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [4948] From: Kihe Blackeagle Date: 04-20-90 To: Paul Hume Time: 00:41 Subject: Re: DEATH SeeAalso: 5376 Some other female/feminine death deities: Kali, Isis (stretching a bit, but re-check the Wallis-Budge BOOK OF THE DEAD), the "Maiden of Pain" (Finnish), Baba-Yaga, Nike, AND "the Crone". The last aspecting I give is certain to be controversial here, but I feel it is still a legitimate association. In fact, this is an understanding derived from talks with my closest friends known to have been practicing Wicca at the time. I don't remember all three of the Hindu female aspects, but the discussion we had at the time compared the double triads of Wicca with those of Brahma-Vishnu-Siva and their consorts. Pax ... Kihe --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [4949] From: Kathryn Graham Date: 04-20-90 To: All Time: 01:09 Subject: WICCA SeeAalso: 6841 Hello out there! This message base really came as a surprise to me. As a solitary witch for the last few years, I was beginning to believe I was alone in the world. Pleased to meet you! Kate --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [4950] From: Moon Puppy Date: 04-20-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 17:58 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 4943 SeeAalso: 5364 EID:1f70 14948f53 MSGID: 1:101/192 262f86be Hi, just thought I'd add a nice Female Death Story. It is in Sword and Sorceress IV an anthology edited by Marion Zimmer Bradley DAW Books the short stoy is titled "Death and the Ugly Woman" by Bruce D. Arthurs. An interesting veiw of death. Later MP --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: NPI I (617) 593-0081 Lynn, MA 01904 (1:101/192.0) Message Number: [4951] From: Lance Lyon Date: 04-20-90 To: Brigid Dragonchild Time: 00:25 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE SeeAalso: 5372 In a message to All <04-17-90 20:09> Brigid Dragonchild wrote: BD >Dallas is online...please respond... Hearin' ya loud & clear all the way over here in Oz! Cheers, Lance. --- QuickBBS 2.64 & FD 1.99c [RT] * Origin: Avalon - -= Ars Magica =- (28:200/0) Message Number: [5364] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-20-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 22:03 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 4950 SeeAalso: 5366 In a message to Paul Hume <04-17-90 14:03> Jonathan Hutchins wrote: > for), The Valkyries chose souls _after_ they're dead; and Um, gotta disagree on that with ya. According to my sources, Norski that I am, the VAlkyries are maiden spirits under the goddess Freya, goddess of both love and war (interesting, huh?) and they ride above a battle and watch for particularly valiant and heroic warriors. When they see one who truly deserves to enter Valhalla, one maiden swoops down on her flying steed and taps him on the shoulder. This is his signal to fight with incredibly suicidal vigor and do heroic and self-sacrificial things until he is inevitably slain, at which time the maiden swoops down again, picks up his soul and carries it off with her to Valhalla, where he is treated to an eternity of doin' what he likes to do best: fightin' in the morning, eatin' and drinkin' himself into oblivion in the evening, and swivin' all night until the next morning when he gets to get up and do it all again. So while I still don't think this is what you're asking for, the Valkyries do qualify as selectors of _living_, rather than dead guys. Just a detail correction, there... -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [5365] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-20-90 To: Artemis Lupa Time: 22:11 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 4944 SeeAalso: 5803 In a message to Robin Culain <04-18-90 21:08> Artemis Lupa wrote: > general cussedness. I'd much rather use lawyers. But some Shakespeare would agree. We should suggest it; I think a lot of people otherwise against animal testing would think it a terriffic idea... > Sorry for the sermon. Oh please don't be. Yay. Rah. Go, go, hooray and other encouraging noises. Lovely to read someone both opinionated and knowlegeable; so frequently people are one without the other... -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [5366] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-20-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 22:22 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 5364 SeeAalso: 5811 Re: your message on Lillith in her contemporary form... What a wonderful, evocative description. Quite literally gave me goosebumps, which only the best prose/poetry/music/ritual/ideas give me... Are you a poet or other sort of writer? -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [5367] From: Ammond Shadowcraft Date: 04-20-90 To: All Time: 09:52 Subject: Diana and Lucifer (Creation Myth) The Tuscan Cosmogony by Janus Sundance This is a somewhat stylized rewrite of the cosmogony that was verbally given to Charles Godfrey Leland by Tuscan witches in 1886. In 1897 Leland received a somewhat confused manuscript from one Maddalena. This manuscript set forth the doctrines of La Vecchia Religione, the Old Religion. From this he published Aradia: or The Gospel of the Witches which is the Vangelo delle-Streghe. Let's go back for a few moments and look at who and what these people were. ETRUSCANS (ih-TRUHS-kuhnz) were a people who lived in present day ETURIA (present day Tuscany, Umbria, and Latium) in Italy. Eturia extended from the Arno River in the north to the Tiber River in the south, and from the Appennine Mountains in the east to the Tyrrhenian Sea in the west. Most scholars believe that Etruscans came to Eturia about 800 BCE from the east, probably by sea. Their records show that the Greeks influenced their culture. Their culture reached its height about 400 BCE. At that time their influence extended from the Po Valley in the north all the way down to present day Campaina. Rome was under their rule through the 500s BCE. The historical importance of the Etruscans lies in their influence upon early Rome. Theirs was the first well- developed city culture with which small farming communities in ancient Latium came into contact. When the Etruscan kings ruled Rome in the 500s BCE Rome grew from a village into a city. Rome became so prosperous and powerful under the Etruscan kings that it was able to rule most of Latium well after the last Etruscan king was driven out of the city. Eturia passed wholly under the control of Rome early in the 200s BCE. GYPSIES from India arrived in Eturia around 1000 CE. They tell us that they passed through Egypt first. They were named gypsies by the local inhabitants; a term used as a worn down version of Egyptian. The "Lords of Little Egypt" is what they called themselves. It seems their culture mingled with folk Etruscan culture and formed what we know of today as Romany Gypsies. Gypsies didn't consider themselves witches originally. Still gypsy culture has a remarkable resemblance to other witch traditions. It is thought that they formulated these associations previously while in Eturia. There is a gypsy proverb that goes... "Wherever the Romanies go, there witches may be found." This was because of their parallels in belief. They were pagan at heart with strong traits of Goddess worship, and with an inborn aptitude for all things magic, sorcery, and the occult. Gypsies also believed in reincarnation. They were natural sympathizers with pagan witches, their companions in misfortune and outlawry. The whole truth about gypsy religion and gypsy witchcraft has not yet been full investigated; though some ceremonies and customs have been recorded. Many of these are strikingly familiar to those of the witch cult among the non-gypsies. For example there is the custom held by the wildest and most primitive gypsies of praying to the new moon. This is done skyclad, naked. On the night when the moon first becomes visible they will take their clothes off, bow to her and pray that she will bring them good fortune, health and money during the coming month. There is also the outdoor nocturnal ceremonies of the two cultures, complete with bubbling cauldron, music and dancing which aroused the suspicions of many a passer-by. There was some amount of cross fertilization between gypsy culture and the witch cult. There is a definite belief among present day witches that when the persecution against witches grew fiercer in England, in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, many witches fled their homes and took to the roads, becoming mumpers, or traveling folk, who followed the gypsy way of life though they were not themselves of gypsy blood. Because of the beliefs they held in common --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [5368] From: Ammond Shadowcraft Date: 04-20-90 To: All Time: 09:54 Subject: Creation Myth SeeAalso: 5369 a certain amount of ideaological interchange took place between witches and gypsies. They tended to protect each other against the mutual enemy, that privileged Christian society which tormented, dispossessed and hanged them both, witch and gypsy alike, in the name of the God of Love. CHARLES GODFREY LELAND, born 15 August 1824, was a remarkable many-sided personality, to whom students of folklore and witchcraft owe a great deal. His most famous books on this subject are Gypsy Sorcery and Fortune-Telling, 1891, Etruscan-Roman Remains in Popular Tradition, 1892 and Aradia: or the Gospel of the Witches, 1899. All together he wrote over 50 books on a variety of different subjects The lore of ghosts, witches and fairies surrounded Leland from boyhood. He was born in Philadelphia, Penn. When he was only a few days old, his old Dutch nurse carried him up to the garret of the house, and placed a Bible, a key and a knife on the babies breast, and lighted candles, money, and a plate of salt at the babies head. The object of this rite was to cause him to rise in life, to be lucky, and to become a scholar and a wizard. It certainly seems to have worked. Leland seemed to have a bit of the gypsy spirit. He traveled extensively as a journalist in America, prospected for oil in the Wild West, and once spent time with General Custer at Fort Harker. He was deeply devoted to his wife Isabel, whom he married in 1856. He survived her death less than a year. His long and active life closed in 1903 in Florence, Italy. Leland not only studied magic and witchcraft, he practiced them. His letters and other writings are full of references to successful spells he accomplished. He was taught these skills by Romany Gypsies who called themselves witches. He managed to make his way into their closed society and they considered him a powerful magician. To Leland they entrusted many, but not all, of their secrets. From these Leland wrote his books. Romagna Toscana witches initiated him into La Vecchia Religione in the winter of 1888. What follows is a rewrite of that cosmogony. ------ This is the story of the beginning of all things. It is a story of birth and of passion. Deep in the heart of Ancestral Time there arose a stirring. The Ladys and Lords of the Evendim of Chance conspired together in love to create Another. It had been long, too long, since the Last One returned to them barren, sterile and lifeless. Their work having been done they rested. Still the life within them sturred the aether. They conferred with one another and it was decided that Another should be brought forth. The Ancient Powers turned their faces toward the Next One. They performed their magick skillfully, working their Mighty Wills in the Ancient Fires. They worked with forces as yet unknown to WoMan. In their mighty striving they bent time and space to their wills. With patience and perseverance they brought Her forth, shinning and dark, from the Sacred Ancient Fires. She was beautiful, dark and shining, vibrant and powerful, flowing and free. The Ancient Powers called her Diana. Together, with a powerful spell, they cast Diana into the aether. Diana exploded into the NetherRealm, expanding, changing from one form to another until, at last, she rested. Diana, the Dark Shining One, was alive with all the forces the Ancient Powers had granted Her. Diana was happy for aeons until she felt a sturring within Her. The Ancient Powers had hidden a surprise in Diana. One of which even her wondrous magickal knowledge was useless against. A pain arose. She did not know pain. A hurt! Where did it come from? Looking into the assembled Mirror of the Ancient Ones of the Evendim, a Mirror made and held between the outer rims of Time and Space, She saw Another. He was beautiful, shining and full of fiery light. When Diana looked away from the Mirror She saw him no more and --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [5369] From: Ammond Shadowcraft Date: 04-20-90 To: All Time: 09:56 Subject: Creation Myth Previous Reply: 5368 SeeAalso: 5370 the pain was ever the greater. What must She do to gain the Bright Shining One? Diana inquired of the Ancient Ones. An Ancient One arose and spoke gently with Her saying that She must bring out the Bright Shining One from within. This would end the pain from which there was no relief. Diana turned Her face to the task and worked mightily within using Her dark skills. She rent open her form and loosed the Bright Shining One to stand before Her. He was here! The pain was gone, but Another was about. This changed everything. What would She do? She looked upon the Bright Shining One and knew His name. It was Lucifer. Lucifer looked about Him and was shocked. He had been torn from within the Womb of Diana. Unaware of his Fate he had been woken from the Realm of the Sleeping Ones and was cast into the NetherRealm with Another. What was it? Who was She? Lucifer was afraid of the Dark Shining One. What was Her intention. How long had She been there? Was this a dream? Diana stepped toward her Lover. Lucifer stepped away. Diana strode toward Lucifer and Lucifer ran. Like the wind he ran from Diana. Diana chased her Lover and Son throughout the NetherRealm. Here and yon they sped and as they did dark and light shapes sprung up behind them like rain upon the sea, like crops upon the land. Wondrous shapes, fleeting and still, did they cause to become alive in their passionate chase. Diana pursued Lucifer for many ages, darting and dashing, changing from form to form, till at last Lucifer in a great act of desperation vanished from Diana's sight. Diana was hurt and confused. Where did He go? Why did He run? Diana cried and wailed her hearts anguish, screaming in fury, tossing about the light and dark forms about her till she slumped in tears. She remembered how She had seen Lucifer for the first time. She had looked into the Mirror of the Ancient Ones then and She would do so again. Using Her magickal powers She assembled the Ancient Mirror as the Ancients had done before. She gazed into the Mirror of the Evendim and saw Lucifer. He was living far from Her in a distant corner of the NetherRealm. She knew the place. It was not hard to go there. No time was used in getting there. Diana hid outside the portal to Lucifer's castle. She looked into the Mirror and saw Lucifer sleeping upon His bed. But at the Doorway was a Watcher. Lucifer had made the Watcher to warn Him of Diana's approach. What would she do? How would she get past the Watcher? She remembered that in the Power of Shining Darkness there is sleep. Sleep was the power she would use. Diana cast her spell and all in the NetherRealm closed their eyes, their heads drooping upon their chests and slept. As the Watcher slept Diana crept past the sentinel. She had seen that behind the sentinel was Lucifer's bed and on the bed was Lucifer and a cat. A marvelous cat it was. Diana saw that it wasn't really a cat by a powerful fairy, another creation of the Ancients. She called to the fairy and it came to her. Diana changed form into a cat and crept upon Luficer's bed. Lucifer was aroused and noticing the cat He went back to sleep. Diana pondered what to do now that she was with Lucifer again. She wanted to be with Him more than skin deep. Diana wove a powerful spell that caught Lucifer twixt night and day in his sleep. Diana changed to her normal form and made love with Lucifer. Lucifer was unable to resist and his passion arose mightily. He plunged himself completely and utterly into the Shining Darkness... Afterward Lucifer awoke and was very angry that Fearful Diana had placed Him under Her spell. His Light had been overcome by Her Darkness. His anger rose but Diana sang him a song of Life which sounded like the buzzing of bees. This was the first fascination. It was the sound of the spinning wheel spinning all Life. She spun the --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [5370] From: Ammond Shadowcraft Date: 04-20-90 To: All Time: 09:58 Subject: Creation Myth Previous Reply: 5369 SeeAalso: 5371 lives all WoMen; all things were spun from the wheel of Diana. Lucifer turned that wheel. Lucifer's anger abated. He came to understand that light naturally lives in dark. No harm came to him. They we happy together. The Watcher was put to other uses. The castle became their home. In the passing of Time Diana became full. She gave birth to a beautiful girl. Together they called Her Aradia because she had within Her the Shining Dark and Shining Light. There was trouble brewing in the NetherRealm. The Ancient Ones summoned Diana and spoke of the harsh times of WoMan. Diana felt compassion and assuming a human form journeyed to earth. Diana had such a passion for witchcraft, and became so powerful that her greatness could not be hidden. It came to pass one night at a meeting of the Wicca and Fairies that Diana declared she would darken the heaven and turn all the stars into mice. All those who were present said that if she could do She would be their Queen. Diana went into the street, She took the bladder of an Ox and a piece of witch money, which has an edge like a knife--with such money witches cut the tracks of men from the face of the earth--and She cut the earth. She placed the earth and many mice within the bladder. She blew into the bladder till it burst. There came a great marvel, for the earth that was within the bladder became the round heaven above. For three days there was a great rain. The mice became the stars and rain. Having made the heavens, the stars and the rain Diana became Queen of the Witches, She was the Cat who ruled the Star Mice, the heaven and the rain. Having revealed Herself Diana shed her human form and departed. She continued on in the chase of Her lover and Brother and the governing of Her Star Mice. But She was also Queen of the Witches, whose education must now continue. This task she delegated to Aradia. Diana's instruction to Aradia were thus... "It's is true that you are a spirit, But you were born to become again, As a mortal you must go to the earth below, To be a teacher to women and men, Who desire greatly to study witchcraft in your school... And you shall be the first among all witches, And you shall be first among all in the World." Now the Wicca lived in hideous conditions. Discovery meant sure and horrible death at the hands of the Slavers of the White Fool. Abject poverty was their common lot. The Church and the rich were the tyrannical enemies of the Wicca. Diana's instruction to the witches through Aradia was to help the Wicca and hurt the Slavers. Diana was not pleasant in this instruction. "And you shall teach the art of posioning, Of posioning those who are the Great Lords of all, Yes, you shall make them die in their palaces, And you shall bind the oppressors soul with power. And when you shall find a rich peasant, One who stoops and bows at the command of the White Fool, Then you shall teach your pupil, the witch, How to ruin his crops with tempest dire, With lightning and terrible thunder, And with hail and wind, And when a priest shall do you injury by his benedictions You shall do to him double the harm, And do it in the name of me, Diana, Queen of all the witches." For I have come to sweep away the bad, The men of Evil will I destroy." Diana was angry because the wealthy and powerful hurt and killed her witches. She offered solace to the suffering... "You who are poor suffer with keen hunger, And suffer and toil in wretchedness, Often you are imprisoned and tortured,' Yet you bear through it, You have a soul and for your sufferings, --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [5371] From: Ammond Shadowcraft Date: 04-20-90 To: All Time: 09:59 Subject: Creation Myth Previous Reply: 5370 You shall be happy in other worlds, But death and destruction to those that do you evil." Aradia left her Mother and took the message to the witches of the earth, saying, "When I shall have departed from this world, Whenever you have need of anything, Once in the month and when the moon is full, You shall assemble in some desert place, Or in the forest you may join together, To adore the potent spirit of your Queen, My mother, Great Diana. They who are eager to learn all witchcraft, And have not yet won it's deepest secrets, Them my Mother will teach you, And in truth all things as yet unknown, And you are free from slavery, And you are free in everything, And as a sign that you are truly free, You shall be naked in your rites, both men and women, This shall be until the last of your oppressors are dead, And you shall play the game of Benevento, Extinguishing the lights and after that the games, And thus you shall hold your supper..." So it came to pass that Diana recalled her daughter Aradia, after the latter's mission on earth was accomplished; but she gave Aradia the ability to bestow upon the witches that invoke her thirteen powers: To grant to her or him success in love, To bless with power friends, To curse with power enemies, To converse with spirits, To find hidden treasure in ancient ruins, To conjure the spirits of priests who died leaving treasure, To understand the voice of the wind, To change water into wine, To divine with cards, To know the secrets of the hand, To cure diseases, To make those who are ugly beautiful, and To tame wild beasts. ------ Thus we have the End of the Beginning. Aradia, wondrous Aradia, we invoke you. Bring your blessings to us now. So Mote It Be --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [5372] From: Lone Star Date: 04-20-90 To: Brigid Dragonchild Time: 18:04 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE Previous Reply: 4951 SeeAalso: 5374 Atalanta is reading you loud and clear Bright Blessings...Lone Star --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Atlanta Connection - Home of WICCA in Atlanta (133/205) Message Number: [5373] From: Tanis Date: 04-20-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 18:47 Subject: Re: FOUR LEGGED CHILD CARE Hear hear.... Tanis of the Northwoods P.S. Remind me to tell you about the young wolf I saw as we were driving down the ALCAN highway... --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [5374] From: Dave Aronson Date: 04-20-90 To: Brigid Dragonchild Time: 12:01 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE Previous Reply: 5372 SeeAalso: 5377 EID:448b 1494603a MSGID: 1:109/120 262f3289 > BD: Dallas is online...please respond... YooHoo/2U2! --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [5375] From: Paul Hume Date: 04-20-90 To: Randall Terpstra Time: 09:37 Subject: Re: Thuggee, Thagi or Kali Worship Previous Reply: 4909 SeeAalso: 5805 EID:5ddf 14944ca4 Randall, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law. Did you have anything besides circumstantial conspiracy theory to back your charming hypothesis that Sri Rajneesh's sect has revived thugee? Or have you found a convenient stalking horse for your particular brand of paranoia? Just wondering. Love is the law, love under will. Paul --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [5376] From: Sam Hane Date: 04-20-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 11:30 Subject: Re: DEATH Previous Reply: 4948 SeeAalso: 8362 As I read this, it came to mind that many of the aspects of Kali would also fit your qualification for "Goddess of Death". --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [5377] From: the Bard Date: 04-20-90 To: Brigid Dragonchild Time: 08:20 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE Previous Reply: 5374 SeeAalso: 6216 EID:b7b2 14944282 Hi, Dallas! --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [5378] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-21-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 07:00 Subject: Re: Town of Wiccans? SeeAalso: 6218 In a message to All <04-19-90 09:06> Aga Windwalker wrote: > At some point in time, someone told me that in > Northeast Florida there > was a township that was almost ENTIRELY New Age/Wicca. I > never heard > anything after that. My question is, is it true? If so, > have any of you > been there? I'd like to go one day, but I haven't the > foggist where (and if > it exists) it is. Thanks!!! > Blessed Be! > -=)- Could they have been a bit ignorant or misinformed and referring to CasaDega? B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [5379] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-21-90 To: Ammond Shadowcraft Time: 07:24 Subject: Re: Creation Myth SeeAalso: 6448 You have indeed done all who use this echo a great favor with your posting of the material on Leland's work! I thank you for taking the time and effort to post some of the highest quality material ever seen on this echo! May you long continue to walk in the Grace of our Lady, and with the Wisdom of the Lord! B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [5796] From: Neal Lowrey Date: 04-21-90 To: All Time: 14:23 Subject: WHAT IS WICCA I have been watching my screen flash very interesting topics and will have to read my capture more closely. What is WICCA? --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Atlanta Connection - Home of WICCA in Atlanta (133/205) Message Number: [5797] From: Tanis Date: 04-21-90 To: Randy Niere Time: 17:42 Subject: Re: PANGUR BAN Previous Reply: 4942 "Moonwulf's Still the King..." and "Moonwulf's Rangers" are only two filksongs that I know of him...I've met him...but never really got a chance to know him. *Gryn* As for where I am, I'm in the Barony of the Flame (Louisville)... -Tanis of the Northwoods -Back again... --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [5798] From: Tanis Date: 04-21-90 To: Kathryn Graham Time: 18:30 Subject: Re: WICCA SeeAalso: 5807 Kathryn... There are solitaries all over the place...I was one in Alaska when I first came onto the Net...still am (for all intents and purposes) while I'm living in Louisville (the Baptist Bible BeltBuckle of the nation...I haven't seen so many boards with religious arguments in my life (lives??)) But just jump in and talk! You'll find that we're all willing to chat about anything (and given some of the topics lately, ANYTHING is fair game.) -Tanis of the Northwoods -"ever been in a pit? That describes the Louisville physical area..." --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [5799] From: Paul Hume Date: 04-21-90 To: Tiffany Hall-Graham Time: 08:05 Subject: Re: New Books SeeAalso: 6864 EID:ad0d 149540b3 Tiffany - 93. Dr. Martello (and the book) have been around awhile, and he was one of the first US Witches to come out of the broom closet in the early '70's. He is vehemently anti-Christian and presents a lot of material on The Burning Time (and Hanging Time, and Died-by-the-Grace-of-God-under-the-Question Time). Lately, my understanding is that this aspect of his spirituality has overcome him, and his patterns are those of a conspiracy theorist, pagan-style, which is sad if true. It is a nice little (? ok - thickish ?) book, and was the first mention I came across in my early readings on stregeria, the Sicilian trad, and Aradia. Law=Will/Love Paul --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [5800] From: Aule Mar Date: 04-22-90 To: Tiffany Time: 02:04 Subject: Children EID:f7a4 1496108c MSGID: 1:109/120 26314b91 I have four children, the oldest, a boy 14. and four girls, 12,10,8 the girls are very interested in the craft, and just about always are in our circles at least the Sabats. The younger two usualy fall asleep during (They can sleep through an earthquake). The 12 yr old will sometimes Maiden for one of the priesteses, and has memorized many of our chants, etc... The boy is interested but would rather watch TV. There no pressure for any of them to be present at the circles. However they are all pagan/wiccan. My problem is that they know so little of christanity you can't use comparisons to teach them with! --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [5801] From: Robin Culain Date: 04-22-90 To: Artemis Lupa Time: 01:07 Subject: Blood Sacrifice, Research Benefits and Wiccan Ethics 1 of 2 EID:ebd1 149608f5 RC > One thing does occur to me, however. I RC>personally believe that blood sacrifice is both RC>effective and devastatingly harmful to the practicioner RC>as well as the victim. AL>Why do you people persist in being so stupid? Don't AL>you even study your own purported religion? Well, for starters, I don't think much of your tone. You'd best be pretty sure of the party line that follows to suggest both that my religion isn't mine and that I haven't bothered to study it. If I had, would I have reached your estimable conclusions? .. AL>Sacrifice, in it's pure and original form is/ was the AL>acknowledgement and honoring of the life that is taken ( of AL>dire necessity, often) to allow another life or lives to AL>continue. It is deeply moving, sorrowful, joyous, More AL>miraculous, and powerful. .. Sentimental and pretty. Also very unlikely. Sacrifice in its highest and ultimately evolved form might resemble what you said, if I believed in the value of sacrifice, which I don't. But in its original form? The documented instances look more like frying someone else's hide to save one's own. .. I believe you have confused what you think "should" be true with what "is". Both are of value. But different. .. AL>No one can who is sane and AL>aware can take a life without feeling the horrible loss and AL>peace of the act. .. AL>Hunters know all these things. Those who slaughter their AL>own food animals also know this. .. I don't see much basis in reality. I've hunted. It didn't feel horrible. I've taken life. It was the right thing to do. Perhaps you mean something more subtle than you seem to have said. ... AL>We in research sometimes have a harder time because the AL>lives sacrificed (this term is used in the scientific ALpublications, and I believed is used sincerely) seem a very AL>long way from the lives that will be AL>saved. ... Here we start to get to it. We in research included me at various times ... you assume too much (or little) of your audience. The sanctimony of the "sacrifice" talk I heard made me gag in contrast to the horrible mutilations I witnessed. The nobility of purpose you allude to may be yours, but a significant proportion of research I've seen is motivated by the more ordinary drives to power, fame and fortune. No, the individuals don't often get the fortune. Their corporations do. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [5802] From: Robin Culain Date: 04-22-90 To: Artemis Lupa Time: 01:09 Subject: Blood Sacrifice, Research Benefits and Wiccan Ethics, 2 of 2 EID:ebd1 14960928 AL>No one in research wants to work with animals. ... No one? Wants? I think some researchers have a wise level of discomfort with the level of information that can be wrested from nonhumans. Others could care less, as they are more focused on the ordinary drives to power and publication. ... Humans would work much better as experimental subjects. That is a matter of fact as far as I can tell. That isn't usually done (we except the known examples of the Nazi Germans and Imperial Japanese) for ethical considerations. A worthwhile defense of the knowledge wrested from inflicting procedures on nonhumans which we would never inflict on humans must address why the same ethical restraint does not apply. Is it my species first? Always? For non-important ends? For any ends that sell? ... The questions above may bear answering. Unsupported hymns to the unselfishness of the "research community" don't hold up. ... AL>I'd much rather use lawyers. ... I know you were joking at the expense of a much (and often unjustly) maligned group of human animals, but can you see how your joke makes my point. Why not lawyers? Why dogs? Is a bad lawyer of more value than a good dog? Why or why not. These are issues that Wicca -- and any serious religion -- must deal with, not just relegate them to the "everybody knows" category. ... AL>I grieve for the rats (most noble of AL>animals), mice, and rabbits, and elsewhere for the other AL>creatures. Their lives do not passed unmarked nor AL>unhonored. ... Actually, I believe you and am glad. If we really have a necessity, right, or obligation to torture other animals for the benefit of our species, we at least ought to honor their agony. But if we are to be serious about all our purported religions, we must look squarely at the torture for what it is. By the way, I notice you've shifted the discussion to clean death. Make no mistake - I'm talking torture. ... You've given the PR response one often hears from the research community, and I've said I don't believe it based on experience. (Yes, I have a fancy degree, but I'm in another line of work now). ... Try to hear that I'm *not* saying the predictable response - that all sacrificing of nonhumans for human ends must stop. What I am saying is that no progress is likely to occur until we have the courage to acknowledge the blood sacrifice carried out and the efficacy of the results. The researchers are blind to the blood sacrifice. The animal rights advocates are blind to the genuine results. ... Nobody wants their loved ones to suffer or die untimely. Many of us also do not wish to stand on the crushed bodies of others ... which doesn't even begin to address the issue of research that only serves to keep the academic papermills rolling and the grants coming in. Old Willie Burroughs had it right. You have to look at the naked lunch. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [5803] From: Robin Culain Date: 04-22-90 To: Paul Hume Time: 01:12 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 5365 SeeAalso: 6450 EID:566b 14960999 Well, the cosmetics issue was the main one I was trying to raise, because it can be made easily and opens a door of vision. If we can see that it is not acceptable to torture nonhumans for human cosmetic ends, we can admit that there are times it is not acceptable to torture nonhumans. ... That is a very hard point to reach with many folks, and many's the sidestep getting there. ... I'm not here to condemn experimental allopathy in a blanket way; neither do I feel obliged to offer alternatives that bring equal benefits. I'm here to explore some interesting and important ethical questions surrounding both. And what seems central to me is that one must see what is before one goes on to discuss what might be or should be. ... What I see that is, is that nonhumans are tortured and often humans benefit. ... The torture is real. So is the benefit. It may be that there *is* no way to the benefit other than the torture. What do we do then? Perhaps we just live with it. Perhaps we look more closely at the costs and benefits -- in pain, not dollars alone -- of any given project. ... Like any interesting question, tug on it and a big ball unravels. To what extent may we inflict pain because we can? Researchers will often justify what appear to be obviously unnecessary painwork on the grounds that in basic research one never knows what knowledge will come up. Often they are right. Does this mean there are no limits to the benefits we can receive or the pain we can inflict? Doubt it. ... Some of us believe in Karma -- not in the big daddy sense of punishment, but in the sense of a spiritual physics -- action and reaction. I live in that framework, and wonder the price we pay for our knowledge and longevity. Are there alternatives? Dare we consider them? ... I think this debate descends to the "noble researcher" versus "noble defender of animals" stasis because it is frightening to look at the real questions underlying the fixed stances. I'd like to try to pry the lid off, given my limited talents. If it turns into the same stale old debate I'll drop it. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [5804] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-21-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 14:44 Subject: Re: THE BEGINNING Previous Reply: 4939 > any time you wanna talk abstract stuff with another pilgrim > like yourself, just gimme a call! Alright, but, just remember, YOU made the invitation. B-) --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [5805] From: Fifth Warrior Date: 04-22-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 00:00 Subject: Re: Thuggee, Thagi or Kali Worship Previous Reply: 5375 I was in Salem, OR while th reeshees were there and they really didn't do that much to the outside except skim off the most gullible lawyers and doctors, along with unfortunates looking for a place to fit in. Although they did increase the demand for limos in our area. >>>Fifth Warrior<<< --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [5806] From: Fifth Warrior Date: 04-22-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 00:10 Subject: Re: ... and all HPF pilgrims Previous Reply: 4941 SeeAalso: 6217 You woildn't happen to be talking about the Heartland festival? I you have Sorry typo. If you have been to this before could you give me some backround, even better, exeperiences from your going to the festival. I amm D**N am considering going, and I would like to know something more about it. >>>Fifth Warrior<<< --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [5807] From: Fifth Warrior Date: 04-22-90 To: Kathryn Graham Time: 00:18 Subject: Re: WICCA Previous Reply: 5798 SeeAalso: 6461 Pleased to meet you! Don't worry about the lonliness. Once your found by other pagans it goes away really quick. >>>Fifth Warrior<<< --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [5808] From: Troyce Wilson Date: 04-21-90 To: All Time: 09:59 Subject: TEXAS FESTIVALS Hi! I was wondering if anyone knows of any Pagan festivals ever held in Texas? Being a solitary, it would be a great chance to network. Unfortunately, festivals like PSG in Wisconson is a bit far to travel, so I'm looking for something in-state. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [5809] From: Kihe Blackeagle Date: 04-22-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 01:15 Subject: Re: NEW BOOKS SeeAalso: 6467 Tiffany, I have not read this particular volume, but have seen comments upon the veracity of Martello. Would suggest that you contact Rowan Moonstone for a more detailed set of commentaries. The brain is telling me that the consensus on MagickNet was to view this man's body of work with a discerning eye -- and cross-check with other sources that have proven to be reliable FOR YOU in the past. (Just when that new eidetic memory would have been *so* handy!) Pax ... Kihe --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [5810] From: Beth Mccloud Date: 04-21-90 To: Randy Alexander Time: 10:45 Subject: Re: To those in the Craft with children... SeeAalso: 6875 EID:4a37 149555a1 Re: "...try to keep ourdaughter from being brainwashed by the Christian Fundies..She's only 3 so there's not a whole lotwe can do at the moment..." You'd be surprised! I must have been in the 3-6 range (ie, Very Short) when I totally blew some guy's mind... He'd been teasing me that "Your mommie isn't going to have a baby--the STORK brings babies." and I'd been refuting that with "Babies grow in mommies tummies!" and finally I shut him up (and made everyone else utterly hysterical w/ laughter, I am told) by pulling down my panties and saying "Babies grow in mommy's tummys and there's a special place for them to come out and it's a *tight fit*!" whilst pointing..... I have also (reportedly) terroized someone who smoked with my little-kid spiel... Just talk to the kid sometime when the subject comes up, and tell him/her that there are people who have funny ideas about religion, and that some of these funny people might try to "teach" their ideas to the child, and that s/he shouldn't be bothered by this--possibly give something to say, like "Well, I'll decide for myself when I get bigger," or somesuch... --"Archangel" Beth --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [5811] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-23-90 To: Randy Niere Time: 19:18 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 5366 SeeAalso: 5813 EID:c6f4 14979a5c banshee was origionally simply a name that translated "woman of the sidhe". the male form was "fer-sidhe", male/female form "aes-sidhe" this concludes todays gaelic etymology lesson ... bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [5812] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-23-90 To: Kathryn Graham Time: 19:21 Subject: Re: Wicca SeeAalso: 7263 EID:c6f4 14979aa7 if you are a solitary up Dallas way, i'll give you contact info with the local CMA (Council of Magickal Arts) chapter .... it's a loose alliance of covens and solitaries of various wiccan/druidic paths (just got back in town from celebrating Beltain with them outside of Austin and had a marvelous time). give my system a call and i'll see that you get the contact info necessary to get in touch with them (they will be able to give you area contacts that i don't have access to down here in Austin) bw - Black Ice, 512-451-6778 --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [5813] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-23-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 19:28 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 5811 SeeAalso: 6476 EID:c6f4 14979b91 you think the description gives you goose-bumps ... you ought to meet her sometime (usually you turn a corner and there she is - for a moment) as for being a poet ... there is a bit of the bard in all of us keltoi (especially those of us who remember ....) bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [5814] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-23-90 To: Dave Aronson Time: 19:32 Subject: Re: Test Message SeeAalso: 9044 EID:c6f4 14979c13 * Yoohoo/2U2! lowtech whack .... bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [5815] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-23-90 To: Troyce Wilson Time: 19:34 Subject: Re: Texas Festivals SeeAalso: 7265 EID:c6f4 14979c53 the two most known festivals are CMA Beltain and Samhain, held outside of Austin, Tejas. keep eyes here for info on Samhain (... he types, still wearing the stained and filthy bdu's that he has been living in for the last two days at CMA Beltain ... his hands complaining (hard to type when you have "drum-blisters/bruises" ..... ) and a good time is always had by all .... bw - there was a large contingent down from Dallas - second in size only to Austins crew --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [6216] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 04-24-90 To: Brigid Dragonchild Time: 11:27 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE Previous Reply: 5377 SeeAalso: 6846 BD>Dallas is online...please respond... you're getting as far as florida. ========= rorschach ========= (one small step for a witch, a giant leap for culture....) --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [6217] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 04-24-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 11:39 Subject: Re: ... and all HPF pilgrims Previous Reply: 5806 SeeAalso: 8369 Bl> i'll be up from central Tejas, perhaps with others ... do Bl>introduce yourselves if you see me (easy to spot 6'ish feet Bl>tall, beard, full mustache, *long* hair (reddish brown), ............. Bl>pentacle, dragon mounted quartz .... the usual jewelry Bl>package, fondness for fatigues, interesting t-shirts Bl>(dragons/skulls/wolves/ .....) and a hatred of shoes. yes, but what will set you apart from the crowd? ;-} ========= rorschach ========= --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [6218] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 04-24-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 11:43 Subject: Re: Town of Wiccans? Previous Reply: 5378 SeeAalso: 6451 AW> At some point in time, someone told me that in AW>Northeast Florida there AW>was a township that was almost ENTIRELY New Age/Wicca. it's called cassadega, and is more old-school "spiritualist" than anything else. take i-95 down to i-4, and head south and look for the signs. (it's a little marker underneath another exit sign.) b/b ========= rorschach ========= --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [6448] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-23-90 To: Ammond Shadowcraft Time: 06:16 Subject: Re: Creation Myth Previous Reply: 5379 Thanks, Ammond! These past few messages (the Creation Myth) were GREAT to read! Blessed Be! -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [6449] (RECEIVED) From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-23-90 To: Doctor Rorschach Time: 06:19 Subject: Re: Hello Previous Reply: 4293 Woops. Sorry. I'm not a minor. I'm 22 years old. Thanks for taking the time to talk with them!!! -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [6450] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-23-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 06:20 Subject: Re: HELP!!! Previous Reply: 5803 JH> Is anyone reading Doonesbury these days? You betcha! It's getting to be a real riot! I particularly liked the "moral dlimena" over the gum wrapper........... -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [6451] From: Aga Windwalker Date: 04-23-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 06:25 Subject: Re: Town of Wiccans? Previous Reply: 6218 SeeAalso: 6844 PS> Could they have been a bit ignorant or misinformed and PS> referring to CasaDega? Well, if I knew what a "casadega" was I might be able to answer that. Honestly, I've never even HEARD of CasaDega. Where's that? -=)- --- via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [6461] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-22-90 To: Kathryn Graham Time: 18:10 Subject: Re: WICCA Previous Reply: 5807 SeeAalso: 6466 Welcome! You are most DEFINITELY not alone! Glad to see you here! Blessed be, -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [6462] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-22-90 To: Robin Culain Time: 18:34 Subject: Re: Blood Sacrifice, Research Benefits and Wiccan Ethics 1 of 2 SeeAalso: 9050 > you said, if I believed in the value of sacrifice, which I > don't. But in its original form? The documented instances > look more like frying someone else's hide to save one's > own. > I don't see much basis in reality. I've hunted. It > didn't feel horrible. I've taken life. It was the right > thing to do. Perhaps you mean something more subtle than > you seem to have said. Wait...You don't believe in sacrifice; you think it's just "frying someone else's hide to save one's own" but you've "taken life" which was "the right thing to do" while hunting? Whoa...this may be logic but it's certainly not the kind _I_ studied (the rational kind)... How do you figure hunting isn't a sacrifice? How do you figure taking life is the right thing to do when you do it but not when someone else does it? How is it that you can rail against death through useful scientific research and not feel horrible about hunting, which is death for much more self-centered and personal reasons? Which "original form" of sacrifice were you referring to? I believe Artemis Lupa was in fact speaking of hunting for FOOD purposes... How can you hunt but not believe in the value of sacrifice? How can you eat a HAMBURGER and not believe in the value of sacrifice, for chrissake? Just curious, of course, -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [6463] From: Tanis Date: 04-22-90 To: All Time: 19:01 Subject: EARTH DAY, 1990 I found the following in the local newspaper, on the editoral page: "Where is the Eagle? Gone" Great Chief in Washington sends word that we wishes to buy our land. How can you buy or sell the sky - the warmth of the land? The idea is strange to us. Yet we do not own the freshness of the air or the sparkle of the water. How can you buy them from us? Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. We know that white man does not understand our ways. One portion of the land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes in the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother but his enemy, and when he has conquered it he moves on. He leaves his fathers' graves, and his children's birthright is forgotten. There is no quiet place in the white man's cities. No place to hear the leaves of spring or the rustle of insect wings. But perhaps because I am savage and do not understand - the clatter only seems to insult the ears. And what is there to life if a man cannot hear the lovely cry of the whipporwill or the arguments of the frogs around the pond at night. The whites too, shall pass - perhaps sooner than other tribes. Continue to contaminate your bed and you will one night suffocate in your own waste. When the buffalo are all slaughtered, the wild horses all tamed, the secret corners of the forest heavy with the scent of many men, and the view of the ripe hills blotted by talking wires. Where is the thicket? Gone Where is the eagle? Gone And what is it to say goodbye to the swift and the hunt, the end of living and the beginning of survival? -Chief Seattle to President Franklin Pierce, 1855 -Tanis of the Northwoods --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [6464] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-23-90 To: Tiffany Hall-Graham Time: 01:43 Subject: Re: Brainwashed kids Previous Reply: 4947 SeeAalso: 6477 EID:f7a4 14970d6d MSGID: 1:109/120 2632977a I personally don't have problems with eating meat, realizing that plants is alive, just as well as critters higher up on the food chain. Granted, there is also the health angle, as well as concerns over the unethical treatment of livestock. But, all things considered, my conscience gets by just fine on seafood and the odd pepperoni pizza. As far as being a hypocrite goes, I wouldn't worry. As much as some people would like to put themself upon an environmental high horse, all of us are human, and thus are to some extent a virus upon Mother Earth. All anyone can be asked to do is to think and act responsibly, and care for the planet we live upon. On a similar note, did anyone see the "Far Side" cartoon in Sunday's paper? It depicted a frail woman lying in a hospital bed, with a clipboard reading "Nature, Mother" at the foot of the bed, while a dozen or so worried-looking animals gazed on. It made me smile and shed a tear at the same time... -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [6465] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-23-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 02:03 Subject: Re: CyberCraft Spirituality Previous Reply: 4945 SeeAalso: 6475 EID:f7a4 14971069 MSGID: 1:109/120 26329b55 While I too would love to reap some of the harvests of technology, I still have a fear of being enveloped by it. While I think a lot of this is just a redirection of the ego's basic fear of dissolution, I also fear that it is valid to be wary of technology eventually swallowing one's humanity. As Tim Leary once said, George Orwell's vision of the future in 1984 is quite optimistic. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [6466] From: Random Oberonsson Date: 04-22-90 To: Kathryn Graham Time: 09:35 Subject: Re: WICCA Previous Reply: 6461 SeeAalso: 6837 KG> solitary witch for the last few years, I was beginning to KG> believe I was alone in the world. Pleased to meet you! I understand completly. I myself have been a solitary practicioner for going on 12 years now (or longer). Only in the last 2 to 3 years have I found others to share my expriences with, and in turn to share thier experiences. It is nice feeling. I have stayed solitary, but it is nice to be able to talk with others on occasion. Welcome. --Random-- [we are everywhere :) ] --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [6467] From: Random Oberonsson Date: 04-22-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 09:42 Subject: Re: NEW BOOKS Previous Reply: 5809 SeeAalso: 6847 The Martello book is interesting. It is more of general history book than anything else. Dr. Martello's writing are definatly in the Strega (Italian Witchcraft) line which is not quite the same as the more known Euro-Celtic variaties known. There are similarities and differances, more numerouse than I have time to go into at this time. As for that particular volume. It is a rerelease of the book. It is missing 2 chapter, and some of the Question and Answer section in the back. I am still looking for an original release of the book so that I can get those chapters. The page number, however, are consistant, but the chaptering goes from 5 to 8. What leads me to believe (other than I have been told by reliable sources that the chapters are indeed gone) is that he makes referances to those chapters, (things that he is going to discuss) that is definatly not there. Why are they missing? Good question. Censorship is one. Why would be another question. I have my theories, but nothing substantial. Hope that review is good enough for you. --Random-- --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [6474] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-25-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 00:18 Subject: Hunting .... EID:c6f4 14990249 i hunt upon occasion (bow & high powered rifle) ... but here in Tejas it really isn't hunting - more of a harvesting. i eat what i take (and *love* the taste of wild game), but i also realize that i am playing a very important role in nature, that of preditor. since we have removed the natural preditors to safeguard our cattle and sheep, the species that were previously held in check via natural predation have flourished - often to the point where their numbers have exceeded the ability of their eco-system to support them. thus comes the yearly hunting season when their numbers are culled so that the species can survive the winter. i come from a rural part of Tejas and seen the results of too many deer and not enough food .... is it kinder to end an animals life quickly with a well placed bullet or arrow or allow it to die a slow and lingering death from starvation and/or disease? note that i speak only of regulated harvesting where the animal is consumed by the hunter .... trophy hunting is entirely another story that i am *totally* against. bw - man is the most successful preditor on the planet and has done far too good of a job at getting rid of the competition ... such is the price for climbing to the top of the food chain --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [6475] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-25-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 00:26 Subject: Re: CyberCraft Spirituality Previous Reply: 6465 EID:c6f4 14990354 technology is not evil ... it is only the tool that evil men use to inflict their will on their fellows - blackwolf's words of wisdom .... just remember, that technology is a double edged sword - depending on the use you put it to, it can either free or enslave .... learn the tools and how to use them and they can never be used to enslave you bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [6476] From: Randy Niere Date: 04-23-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 14:59 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 5813 SeeAalso: 7262 In a message to Randy Niere <04-23-90 19:18> Blackwolf wrote: > this concludes todays gaelic etymology lesson ... Irish insects? \4QB? --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [6477] From: Aethelred Carlile Date: 04-23-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 17:18 Subject: Re: Brainwashed kids Previous Reply: 6464 SeeAalso: 7254 In a message to Randy Alexander <04-17-90 23:39> Tiffany Hall-graham wrote: > reverance for life. Does that make me a hypocrite if I > still eat Quarter Pounders? I don't think so, provided you have an appropriate awareness of the sacrifice of the steer who gave it's life for your 'burger. - AEthelred. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [6480] From: Michael Thorn Date: 04-24-90 To: All Time: 18:05 Subject: S.Cunningham update EID:d75a 149890bc I called Crow Haven Corner and was told that Scott is well and back home in San Jose, California. It seems that the requests for healing get around but the results never make it around-here it is! Thou art God/ddes --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [6481] From: Michael Thorn Date: 04-24-90 To: Troyce Wilson Time: 18:09 Subject: Re: TEXAS FESTIVALS SeeAalso: 6845 EID:d75a 1498913d Troyce- You will probably get some info here. You might contact the Council of the Magickal Arts and consult Larry CornetUs calendar of events. I have misplace my Circle Guide or I would have the addresses readily at hand. If you canUt find them let me know and I will scare them up. Thou art God/dess --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [6482] From: Michael Thorn Date: 04-24-90 To: Neal Lowrey Time: 18:16 Subject: Re: WHAT IS WICCA EID:d75a 14989204 Dear Neal- I am certain that you have many replies by now. On the BBS that you logged onto there may be a file called, TWhat is Wicca?S. Read it. If you would like a pamphlett to hold ont I can send you several short ones for an sase. Wicca or Witchcraft is a revival or recreation of a religion that is to Western Europe as the Native Americans are to the Americas. We worship a Goddess and God and see divinity in all things-even ourselves. There is decentralized authority and celebration of the seasonal agricultural and solar cycles. Any questions? Thou art God/dess --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [6483] From: Michael Thorn Date: 04-24-90 To: Tanis Time: 18:20 Subject: Wicca is Louisville EID:d75a 14989296 Dear Tanis- There are LOTS of Witches in Louisville. I have been there several times for a private Gardnerian Samhain gathering to which about 60 people come from around the country. If you are interested in working with a group (and you may not be), let me know and maybe I can hook you up. Thou art God/dess --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [6600] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 04-25-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 09:32 Subject: Re: Hello Previous Reply: 6449 AW> Woops. Sorry. I'm not a minor. I'm 22 years old. AW>Thanks for taking the time to talk with them!!! oops - my mistake. i'll chat with them again. the HPS is the one who intiated me, and there's a certain emotional attachment there, so it's not like talking with her is a chore ;-} b/b ========= rorschach ========= --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [6783] From: Ken Macht Date: 04-25-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 18:07 Subject: Re: Town of Wiccans? Previous Reply: 6451 SeeAalso: 6844 PS> > Northeast Florida there PS> > was a township that was almost ENTIRELY New Age/Wicca. PS>Could they have been a bit ignorant or misinformed and PS>referring to CasaDega? Could be maybe. Cassadega is northeast of Orlando. The town is very small almost a village, and yes, it is full of New Ager's. There are shops and shingle hangers up and down the streets there -- mostly psychics. There may be a few Wiccans there -- there are alot scattered over Florida. The biggest concentration I know of Wiccans in the Tampa-St. Petersburg and the Sarasota-Bradenton areas. We in Orlando are still a bunch of closet cases. This will change as one circle is heading up a project to get a local network going. (If they only had modems...) B*B, Ken --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [6837] From: Tanis Date: 04-23-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 16:19 Subject: Re: WICCA Previous Reply: 6466 SeeAalso: 6863 Blackwolf... Did you know a person who was affiliated with the CMA called Starsong?? Or her lord, Piper?? Just wondering...as I know them both. They were associated with the CMA while living in Texas a while back. -Tanis of the Northwoods --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [6838] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-23-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 12:56 Subject: Animal Rights Jonathan, Your sarcasm and condescension regarding animal issues is really bothersome. Please stop judging all those concerned with animal issues by those you assume are figureheads. I don't bomb or blockade clinics where animal testing is done, but I do vote and purchase products in accordance with my beliefs. Most issues of ethics and politics are much more cloudy than we want to admit. We are always finding out new information. I do my best to stay informed and make rational decisions, but I don't claim to know it all. I do not protest animal testing in medical environments, though I do encourage the research of alternative forms of testing. I understand that in most situations, companies are required by law to do the testing they are engaging in. However, not all animal testing currently being done *is* required, and I protest this. I also protest animal testing that is not conducted in a humane manner. There are proper and improper ways to do this. I choose not to buy cosmetics that I know have been tested on animals, as these products are in general unnecessary. Why should an animal have to suffer so that I may look good and smell better? The cosmetics I use don't contain the myriad of chemicals you find in drugstore brand cosmetics, and that's why they are not tested on animals. Also, I make my own cosmetics, using ingredients like beeswax and sweet almond oil, which have been used for *centuries*. If these were tested on animals, it was a rather silly task, and I'm not happy about it. I can see why "red dye no. 1094836" was tested on animals, but why use it in the first place? Animal testing aside, I wouldn't want to put many modern cosmetics on my face because of what they contain. My complexion has improved dramatically since I stopped using that garbage. If you have information to pass on (such as the status of recycled paper) please do share it. But don't make it sound like all of us are idiots because we are trying to make the best decisions we can based on our information and our set of ethics. I don't claim to be holier than you are, but you certainly seem to be making a claim that you are smarter than I. Polgara --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [6839] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-23-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 12:58 Subject: Brainwashed kids Previous Reply: 4896 THG> Someone on the CultWatch insists that his son "accepted THG> Jesus Christ" days before his third birthday. Some kindly THG> soul pointed out that a three year old would be just as THG> likely to "accept" the Easter bunny or Santa. I was raised in a Christian environment -- Baptist until about 9, then fundamentalist -- and I can attest to the power of religious teaching on a young mind. From the time I was 4 years old, I was very clear on the "fact" that you had to accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior in order to go to heaven. As an insecure 4-year old, I made sure I said my prayer at least every night, just in case no one heard it. While I wasn't 2 or 3, 4 is still pretty young. I also taught Sunday School to 2- and 3-year olds (a touching experience, I might add). While children of such an age are not ready to understand complicated stories, they pick up very easily on general ideas and principles. Much of my teaching had to do with the ideas of sharing, loving each other, etc. These children definitely respond to and participate in lessons of this nature. As a non-Christian (finally) I am concerned about what information and ideas young children are being fed when their parent's don't think they understand. The idea that I could be so insecure as a 4-year old as to be mortally frightened of the fate of my soul is scary. Sure, part of that is personality (I tend to have dramatic thinking) but part of that is also in response to the attitudes that were taught by the church I attended. You were never good enough. Thank Goddess I moved on in a quick enough fashion! Blessed be, Lady Polgara --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [6840] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-23-90 To: Epona Star Time: 12:59 Subject: Everything Previous Reply: 4898 Epona Star, Welcome to the echo! Recently I started to assemble a database of pagan/occult resources, covering supply houses, bookstores, newsletters, etc. I am creating this primarily for the use of an emerging group called Bay Area Pagan Assemblies (I'm in San Jose, CA), but my listings are from around the country. While I only have 130 records right now, and I am starting to be selective, I do have enough newsletters listed that I could run a search for you on what's available pertaining to your interests, what the latest subscription and sample copy price is (as of my data), etc. If you could tell me what types of interests you have, this would help me narrow down info. Also, with info. on what area of the country you are in, I can tell you what businesses *I* know of in your area. As I don't want to seem like I'm advertising these businesses, you may want to send me a self-addressed stamped envelope with a list of your interests, rather than have me post them here. I'll search through the list and send you a printout. If I have had personal experience with the listing, I will include my comments. Many of them I only know through advertisements, catalogs, and sample issues. I hope this helps you out, as that's the whole point of this type of database. If anyone else is in dire need of referrals, I'll try to help, just *please* include a long, self-addressed stamped envelope with your request. If you know of a good newsletter or magickal supply shop, I'd also like to hear about it! Lady Polgara P.O. Box 18213 San Jose, California 95158 Blessed be! --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [6841] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-23-90 To: Kathryn Graham Time: 13:01 Subject: WICCA Previous Reply: 4949 Kathryn, Please see my message to Epona Star on the topic of resources. I believe the solitary life is a good one -- if you are inclined to being a loner -- but this life can be made all the more fulfilling through occassional contact or long-distance communication with fellow pagans/occultists. Communication via newsletters, exposure to the creative arts of pagan businesses, and BBSing is a wonderful way to keep your fingers on the pulse of the community without overcommitting or overwhelming your sense. If you aren't finding the referrals you need for these things, please drop me a line with an LSASE and I'll try to help you out. I'd rather others didn't have to go through the work I did to assemble my information. Blessed be, Lady Polgara --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [6842] From: Hugh Read Date: 04-19-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 08:11 Subject: Re: Mara? The Void? Previous Reply: 1439 SeeAalso: 9731 EID:d649 14934173 Mara is not, repeat NOT spiritual junk food. She is the Buddhist Evil One...and quite beautiful. As for Maya...I am not clear about what the Buddhist concept of Maya, which is Hindu rather than Buddhist, is. Maya can be torment as well as bliss. The lovely thing about Maya is that pronounced backwards, it yields, "I AM," which is a neato conciet. Reverse Maya and discover your true self. I saw this once upon a time in one of those temporarily illumined states and have never quite been able to do anything about it besides make some people say, O Wow, did you think that up all by yourself...O woe... --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [6843] From: David Schaal Date: 04-19-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 15:28 Subject: Re: why are we going? FMPT 12 MP> down there send me info. MP> As an attempt to make this relevent, who in general MP> goes to these public festivals. Do you find them a MP> "working" event or a social event? I have been to MP> Esotericons, Ecumenicons, ROS and Twilight Covenings MP> as well as some SF Cons that have Path-workings and MP> Tarot Discussions. I enjoy all of them but admit that MP> I am mostly there for the social aspect... I do MP> appreciate the difficulty of organizing the events. At MP> the moment ROS is trying to achive a more focused MP> event. I'll give it my best shot. I go to Pagan Festivals for three reasons, working, networking and socializing. I have been able to pick up a lot of different ideas from going to Heartland and PSG as far as ritual, theology and politics are concerned. I have met many new people, and have found many points of view. I have had one hell of a good time doing it! As far as SF cons go, I usually just go for the parties! Walk With Wisdom -dave --- Sirius 1.0v+ * Origin: Same Stuff, Different Decade (1:282/341.12) Message Number: [6844] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-24-90 To: Aga Windwalker Time: 08:04 Subject: Re: Town of Wiccans? Previous Reply: 6451 Casadega is the small (communal?) "spiritualist" community near Orlando. (I seem to remember that they were toward Lake Wales). Go ask in any occult book store and they'll tell you. B*B -Paul- ps. Anne Gehman was on of the key figures for a while in the early '70s) --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [6845] From: Troyce Wilson Date: 04-23-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 20:46 Subject: Re: TEXAS FESTIVALS Previous Reply: 6481 SeeAalso: 8368 Thanks for the info. Actually, I'm not in the Dallas area, I'm in College Station. Hope you had a good time at Beltane. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [6846] From: Brigid Dragonchild Date: 04-23-90 To: Lance Lyon Time: 22:02 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE Previous Reply: 6216 SeeAalso: 6848 Is that Oz, Oklahoma, or Oz, Oregon? Dragonchild --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [6847] From: Brigid Dragonchild Date: 04-23-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 22:12 Subject: Re: NEW BOOKS Previous Reply: 6467 SeeAalso: 7258 If you are truly interested in the Strega-Italinate tradition, you should try to obtain Charles Leland's =Aradia=. Dragonchild --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [6848] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-24-90 To: Brigid Dragonchild Time: 21:35 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE Previous Reply: 6846 SeeAalso: 8379 In a message to Lance Lyon <04-23-90 22:02> Brigid Dragonchild wrote: > Is that Oz, Oklahoma, or Oz, Oregon? Nope, that is Oz, Australia (Sidney to be exact). B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [6862] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-22-90 To: Kihe Blackeagle Time: 20:18 Subject: Baba Yaga EID:b7b2 1496a256 I didn't know that she was a death goddess...I heard of the one fairy tale where she and her house on the chicken legs is mentioned, but that's it. I thought that she was just your typical fairytale witch. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [6863] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-22-90 To: Kathryn Graham Time: 20:20 Subject: Re: WICCA Previous Reply: 6837 SeeAalso: 6871 EID:b7b2 1496a287 Welcome to the echo, Kathryn! It's always nice to see a new face around. I'm solitary (for the time being) and I didn't realize how many of "us" were out there til I hooked into this message base. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [6864] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-22-90 To: Paul Hume Time: 20:27 Subject: Re: New Books Previous Reply: 5799 EID:b7b2 1496a367 As to what you said about Dr. Martello being somewhat of a comspiracy theorist (did I get that right?) he does seem to be picking on Billy Graham an awful lot in the few pages that I have read. Well, I don't really like Billy either, but the tone of Martello's book comes off as the same sort of tone that certain rabid fundies tend to take towards Wicca/paganism. It's still interesting, though. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [6865] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-22-90 To: Aule Mar Time: 20:31 Subject: Re: Children EID:b7b2 1496a3e2 Hello, Aule! Why is it that the girls are more interested in the craft and your son not so much? It sort of makes sense to me...do you have any ideas why? Of course, your son's 14, so he's probably getting heavily into girls and other assorted activities-am I right? Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [6866] From: the Bard Date: 04-24-90 To: All Time: 13:49 Subject: Information EID:6f65 14986e21 If you want a comprehensive report on "Satanism In America" send $12.00 to Committee for Scientific Examination of Religion (CSER), P.O. Box 5, Buffalo, New York, 14215-005 It includes an excellent history of "Satanism" since 1022 to the present, and covers such topics as "The 'Satanic' Conspiracy," "Survivors and Breeders," "The Motives," "Adequate Evidence," and "'Satanic' Intimidation." Also "Recruitment" and "vandalism," the "profile of the occult murderers," "Child Abductions," and finally covers the damaging aspect of the myth, and what it has done to our country. --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [6871] From: Randy Niere Date: 04-25-90 To: Kathryn Graham Time: 01:02 Subject: Re: WICCA Previous Reply: 6863 SeeAalso: 7252 Hi there, as someone who started working with a group back when Jerry Ford was president, I'd like to welcome you aboard. Blessed be thy feet, that have brought thee here.... --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [6872] From: Mark Ad Date: 04-24-90 To: Carol-sue Mcilhargey Time: 17:36 Subject: Re: JUST TO SAY HI Thanks for thinking about me. I'm afraid that I am incredibly busy here at work, and to make it worse, a very dear relative is quite ill and I am doing my best to help in whatever ways I can. I should be back, somewhat regularly, in a few weeks. Til then Blessed Be --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [6873] From: Kyle Watts Date: 04-24-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 23:09 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 4946 SeeAalso: 8365 Well, it's time for another one of my brief, nonsensical, and all too infrequent messages.... In a message to Mike Nichols <04-17-90 15:44> Silver Claw wrote: SC> "Babies grow in mommy's tummys and there's a special place BM> for them to come out and it's a *tight fit*!" whilst BM> pointing..... I have also (reportedly) terroized someone BM> who smoked with my little-kid spiel... My girl constantly surprises me! BM> Just talk to the kid sometime when the subject comes up, BM> and tell him/her that there are people who have funny ideas BM> about religion, and that some of these funny people might BM> try to "teach" their ideas to the child, and that s/he BM> shouldn't be bothered by this--possibly give something to BM> say, like "Well, I'll decide for myself when I get bigger," BM> or somesuch... Well, that's a good idea, we want her to make her own choice, even if we should disagree. It's just important she's not fooled into making a choice. So far it hasn't been any kind of a problem. At 2 before we discussed anything religous with her she rejected a Xtian coloring book by saying "I don't want that" after looking it over, while we don't really know why, we were surprised and more that a little pleased. Blessed Be! Randy --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [7249] From: Randall Terpstra Date: 04-26-90 To: All Time: 13:08 Subject: Samathorace EID:d75a 149a6912 I have a real challenge for you subscribers of this board. I have discovered an obscure reference to an ancient race called the Samathorace. This was in an OLD! sacred Geometry reference book. This whole research thing started as a result of an dream that I had. Is there anyone out there with information or reference that I can track on??? -- for BLACKWOLF, --- I wish that this was just another urban myth, however, I have continued to amass certain factual information that is leading me to another conclusion. I am not a skeptic, nor am I a "dedicated" believer, however, the more that I do research into the whole arena of Metaphysical Science (including Wicca and all other forms of "new age" enlightenmant) the more convicnced I am that that the Judeo-Christian environment has biased us mere mortals against some of the most fundamental natural processes. Just a footnote. I am a professional Investigator and I snoop for a living ( I am opretty good at it too!). I said this so that it can be understood that I am not just dabbling in the peripherary of this. Oh well, I guess I am preaching top the converted. Finally, let me say that I am VERRRRy impressed with the level of knowledge that is kshown on this echo. It isn't often that I see such comprehensive and in-depth discussion of a complex subject. You are all to be lauded in your commitment. --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [7251] From: Kathryn Graham Date: 04-24-90 To: All Time: 19:38 Subject: THANKS! Many thanks to all of you who sent wonderful welcome messages. It was a sweet gesture, and one I won't forget. I'm still in shock-- reading message after message that sound like I've come home. I'll jump in soon-- Merry meet! Kate --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [7252] From: Kathryn Graham Date: 04-24-90 To: Lady Polgara Time: 20:46 Subject: Re: WICCA Previous Reply: 6871 SeeAalso: 8376 Hi! Many thanks, Epona. I agree, and I'll drop a line with SASE. Merry meet! Kate --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [7253] From: Steve Nordquist Date: 04-25-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 08:00 Subject: Re: child ethics Previous Reply: 4415 (May 3 message) >theory...that they think that "WE" have found something...that [they don't get] As long as they'll listen twice. When does that audience change over to that sort of reaction, in your esteem? Nightwind --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: 64th DIMENSION BBS! 'Most Perplexing BBS in Kansas City..' (1:280/64 Message Number: [7254] From: Aethelred Carlile Date: 04-25-90 To: Lady Polgara Time: 17:14 Subject: Re: Brainwashed kids Previous Reply: 6477 SeeAalso: 7257 In a message to Tiffany Hall-graham <04-23-90 12:58> Lady Polgara wrote: > The idea that I could be > so insecure as a 4-year old as to be mortally frightened of the > fate of my soul is scary. Sure, part of that is personality (I > tend to have dramatic thinking) but part of that is also in > response to the attitudes that were taught by the church I > attended. You were never good enough. You might have a tendancy toward dramatic thinking precicely because of the binary or dualistic attitude, learned at an early age, rather than the other way arround. I suppose one of the reasons that my own separation from the church was reltaivly calm, was that my parents never approved of fire and brimstone preachers... and having been taught a much less dualistic theology than most. Seems like _Officially_ dualism is considered a heresy by many churches, however they tend to go ahead and preach it anyway. It's more effective for fund raising. It seems that many of the problems we have with brand-X religion are problems X-tian theologians have condemed too, but they can't root 'em out of the local churches... Teaching guilt at all is bad enough, but teaching guilt _so_ early, is just outrageous. - AEthelred. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [7255] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-25-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 22:06 Subject: Re: Hunting .... Did I give the impression that I am against hunting? If so, I'm sorry. I, like you, see hunting as a necessary culling of species who would overpopulate and starve otherwise. My problem, if I am understanding the message you're referring to, was only with the contradiction between being a hunter and refusing to acknowlege the value of sacrifice and calling all scientific testing "torture". In no way am I against hunting for food and for the sake of the species. The only reason I mentioned it was because of the contradiction in the other message. To me, hunting is a form of sacrifice, necessary and valuable and very much a ritual act. In many cases, I believe the scientific "sacrifice" of animals is quite similar. If I gave any other impression, I do apologise. At last year's Heartland Pagan Festival, in fact, I got a whole new handle on the ideas surrounding hunting and sacrifice, through the appearance in the main ritual of the god Hearne. Before then, I had tried very hard to understand the ideas involved but didn't have very much success. Hearne gave me an astounding experience, one I will always cherish, and through that I got a real understanding of the concept of sacrifice, particularly self-sacrifice and how it relates to other species besides our own. If I wasn't clear on this, I'm sorry. Hope this clears it up... Blessed be! -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [7256] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-25-90 To: Kihe Blackeagle Time: 23:36 Subject: Martello EID:b7b2 1499bc90 Thanks for the suggestion to be discerning. I kinda wondered about him when in the first chapter or so he sounded like a "rabid pagan." Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [7257] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-25-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 23:40 Subject: Re: Brainwashed kids Previous Reply: 7254 SeeAalso: 7260 EID:b7b2 1499bd09 I saw the Mother Nature Far Side cartoon and thought it very good. I hope it made some people think. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [7258] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-25-90 To: Random Oberonsson Time: 23:41 Subject: Re: NEW BOOKS Previous Reply: 6847 SeeAalso: 8380 EID:b7b2 1499bd3c Have you ever thought of writing to Martello in care of his publisher and asking him about the missings chapters? Or just asking the publisher if they know of anywhere an original copy may be bought? I like the historical data that's in the book, but sometimes I think he's on the verge of sounding like a "rabid pagan." I hadn't noticed the missing chapters (haven't gotten that far yet) but thanks for pointing that out, as I'm sure I would've thought I was going bonkers. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [7259] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-25-90 To: Lady Polgara Time: 23:46 Subject: Natural Cosmetics SeeAalso: 8375 EID:b7b2 1499bdcf I know that this isn't really Wicca-related, but I noticed in your post to Jonathan that you said you make cosmetics. Would you be willing to send me some "recipes" via SnailMail? If you're willing and able, I'll post my address. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [7260] From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-25-90 To: Lady Polgara Time: 23:48 Subject: Re: Brainwashed kids Previous Reply: 7257 SeeAalso: 8377 EID:b7b2 1499be17 It is scary to think that small children could get so frightened about something that I don't think little ones should worry about. I do think that there are many worthy things to be learned in Christianity, like the sharing and loving one another, but I hate the doomsday-this-is-only-a- stopover-obey-or-else attitude that is so prevalent. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [7261] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-25-90 To: Randy Alexander Time: 12:54 Subject: Re: To those in the Craft with children... Previous Reply: 6875 SeeAalso: 9055 EID:7d87 149966c7 Greetings from Fennas Istarion! Yes, they do surprise us! When my 6 year old daughter visited last summer (she lives in southern CO with her mom,) she told me that "when you die you get a new body and come back again. And then when you die you do it again." Her mother is a non-denominational Xtian. (Doesn't go to church, or like any particular group). When I asked where she learned this, she named one of her neighborhood friends! Mom takes care... BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [7262] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-26-90 To: Randy Niere Time: 07:18 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 6476 SeeAalso: 8363 EID:c6f4 149a3a5d irish insects back at you .... a typo due to not nearly enogh caffeine in the system bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [7263] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-26-90 To: Tanis Time: 07:19 Subject: Re: Wicca Previous Reply: 5812 EID:c6f4 149a3a75 Beltain was the first time i was introduced to the people of the CMA and i didn't get to meet nearly as many new faces as i wanted ... but did make the acquainatnce of several exceptional folk (including a jeweler that does gold mokume gane work who i want to get in touch with for soem tech-talk) ... unfortunately, the names you mention are not familiar (what area are they from?) bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [7264] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-26-90 To: Lady Polgara Time: 07:22 Subject: Re: Everything SeeAalso: 8394 EID:c6f4 149a3ad6 interested in cloneing your database this way? .... after i add my references i would be happy to send the additions back your way (any transit database form works and any transfer media) bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [7265] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-26-90 To: Troyce Wilson Time: 07:24 Subject: Re: Texas Festivals Previous Reply: 5815 EID:c6f4 149a3b1a any info on College Station craft resources gladly appreciated ... send me your mailing address and i'll see that you get put on the CMA contact list .... this goes for any of our Tejas readers bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [8362] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-26-90 To: Sam Hane Time: 13:53 Subject: Re: DEATH Previous Reply: 5376 MSGID: 1:280/901 4d0de1d8 > As I read this, it came to mind that many of the > aspects of Kali would also fit your qualification for > "Goddess of Death". What I'm looking for is a _Personification_ of death, not a ruling Goddess. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [8363] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-26-90 To: Moon Puppy Time: 13:54 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 7262 SeeAalso: 8364 MSGID: 1:280/901 4d0de4a1 REPLY: 1:101/192 262f86be > > Hi, just thought I'd add a nice Female Death Story. It > is in Sword and Sorceress IV an anthology edited by > Marion Zimmer Bradley DAW Books the short stoy is > titled "Death and the Ugly Woman" by Bruce D. Arthurs. > An interesting veiw of death. Yup. One of the ones that got me thinking. I remember one from F&SF that portrayed Pele as Death too. I'm looking for instances outside of modern literature; more on the lines of folklore or myth. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [8364] From: Jonathan Hutchins Date: 04-26-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 13:55 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 8363 SeeAalso: 9045 MSGID: 1:280/901 4d0deb21 Thanks for the clarification on the Valkyries. Guess thty'd fit the bill then. --- FD 1.99c * Origin: The Wolf's Den in Kansas City (1:280/901) Message Number: [8365] From: Silver Claw Date: 04-26-90 To: Kyle Watts Time: 15:55 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 6873 SeeAalso: 8366 > Summarize the universe in 1 word or less. Nifty --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [8366] From: Aethelred Carlile Date: 04-26-90 To: Kyle Watts Time: 17:43 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 8365 SeeAalso: 8378 In a message to Silver Claw <04-24-90 23:09> Kyle Watts wrote: > Therefore, since I cannot > compare something infinite to something non-infinite, and > that those are the only two choices that I am aware of, it > is impossible for me to comprehend infinity without some > "divine" help. Without the example to compare it to, the > mind becomes easily befuddled. The notion of an infinite divinity does help, but (as someone who has worked with some very large numbers) may I propose a more mundane alternitive: Consider the smallest thing of which you are aware and the largest. Then immagine something which is porportionally to the largest as it is to the smallest. Repeat a few times, and you will rapidly enter the relm of transfinite, otherwise known as close enough to infinity for government work. 8-) - AEthelred. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [8367] From: Hugh Read Date: 04-26-90 To: Tanis Time: 08:40 Subject: Tanis EID:d649 149a4514 In the confusion of the past month or so of lost messages, etc., did you get mine about my thoughts about the name Tanis, Asinat, Tanisa, etc. I wondered if your friend who visits at odd times, sometimes uninvite (Tanis, that is) gave you any kind of quickening at my thoughts. --- * Origin: FIRE OPAL - A Gem of an OPUS [Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-4812] (Opus 1:282/8) Message Number: [8368] From: Troyce Wilson Date: 04-25-90 To: Michael Thorn Time: 23:35 Subject: Re: TEXAS FESTIVALS Previous Reply: 6845 SeeAalso: 9039 Thanks. If you find your Guide, I would appreciate the address. BB. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [8369] (RECEIVED) From: Blackwolf Date: 04-27-90 To: Doctor Rorschach Time: 12:30 Subject: Re: ... and all HPF pilgrims Previous Reply: 6217 EID:c6f4 149b63cd * but what will set you apart from the crowd .... if you have to ask, you haven't met me ..... B{)> bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [8372] From: Tony Iannotti Date: 04-27-90 To: Randall Terpstra Time: 01:26 Subject: Re: Samathorace ``I have a real challenge for you subscribers of this board. I have ``discovered an obscure reference to an ancient race called the ``Samathorace. This was in an OLD! sacred Geometry reference book. Samothrace is an island off the coast of what was Thrace, and now the Greek/Turkish border, in the Northern Aegean Sea. Its recorded (archaeological) history begins in about 1100BC. There is a famous statue of the Winged Nike (the goddess, not the shoe) from there, now in the Louvre, but you see reproductions of it everywhere. ... inflexible tracings of relentless fire... --- Via Silver Xpress V2.20 * Origin: Opera=Deorum: Home of Baphonet-by-the-Sea Message Number: [8373] From: Michael Thorn Date: 04-27-90 To: Troyce Wilson Time: 20:59 Subject: Texas contacts EID:d75a 149ba76a Troyce- For TX contacts you can contact the Deputy National Coordinator of the Pagan/Occult/Witchcraft SIG of Mensa. He is Paul Suliin, 14515 Leffingwell Road, Whittier, CA 90604. Blessed Be --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [8375] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-26-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 10:32 Subject: Natural Cosmetics Previous Reply: 7259 TH> I know that this isn't really Wicca-related, but I noticed TH> in your post to Jonathan that you said you make cosmetics. TH> Would you be willing to send me some "recipes" via TH> SnailMail? If you're willing and able, I'll post my TH> address. I can share with you what I have. I'm sort of a database junkie... I keep databases on anything I study. I have recipe files for magickal, medicinal and general/cosmetic uses of herbs. I collect the recipes and create my own as I go. I'll provide you with what I can without violating anyone's copyrights. If you'd rather not post your address, you can just write to my P.O. Box and I'll see what I can do. Blessed be, Polgara --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [8376] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-26-90 To: Kathryn Graham Time: 10:37 Subject: Re: WICCA Previous Reply: 7252 Kate, Just wanted to let you know that there might be a delay in getting you the info. Last night I decided to make a couple edits to the database and back it up ... but when I opened the file, I found that it only occupied 0k on disk! It was 80k two days before! My husband and I worked with Norton for a while, but we just couldn't restore the data (and, of course, I don't have a hard copy). So, 10 hours of work are lost, but I will spend this weekend doing it all over again, as I really need this database. Sigh. I guess I spoke quickly with my offer, though I still promise to make good! Blessed be, Polgara --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [8377] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-26-90 To: Aethelred Carlile Time: 10:43 Subject: Re: Brainwashed kids Previous Reply: 7260 SeeAalso: 10116 AC> You might have a tendancy toward dramatic thinking AC> precicely because of the binary or dualistic attitude, AC> learned at an early age, rather than the other way arround. Yes, I can see how that would happen -- though my brother and sister don't seem so afflicted. AC> I suppose one of the reasons that my own separation AC> from the church was reltaivly calm, was that my parents AC> never approved of fire and brimstone preachers... and AC> having been taught a much less dualistic theology than AC> most. The church I was raised in was not the typical *fire and brimstone* type. In fact, it was considered quite liberated and scholarly. But the problem here is that the *basis* of the religion is dualistic (IMO) and no matter how liberated my former church was, the attitude pervaded whatever they taught. I mean, you are either right or wrong, good or bad, saved or damned. That's it. It's unfortunate that many people don't realize that there *is* another way to appreciate divinity. I know that it was very hard for me to conceive of non-Christians having morals (when I was a child) because you are taught that traditional values are Christian values, and they aren't found outside of the religion. I got wise about 12, and started studying the occult along with other religions, but most people just accept what is taught from the beginning. --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [8378] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-27-90 To: Silver Claw Time: 12:57 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 8366 SeeAalso: 9043 EID:7d87 149b6721 "Summarize the universe in one word or less." :-D --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [8379] From: Brigid Dragonchild Date: 04-26-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 21:02 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE Previous Reply: 6848 SeeAalso: 8382 Thanks...I wondered where over the rainbow that Oz might be... Dragonchild --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [8380] From: Random Oberonsson Date: 04-26-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 23:07 Subject: Re: NEW BOOKS Previous Reply: 7258 Well, the publisher for that book (Citidel Press if I remember correctly (my copy is currently about 30 miles away from me so i can't check)) doesn't list a mailing address. Though a Martello is listed in the classifieds of Circle Network News, with a mailing address in the same vacinity as the author claims to come from, so I'm thinking about writing that address. One of the branches of the Dallas Public Library supposedly has a copy of the original, it's just a matter of me getting the time to go look. If they do, then it's photocopy time for the missing stuff. Let you know. BB --Random-- --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [8381] From: Kihe Blackeagle Date: 04-27-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 00:56 Subject: Re: BABA YAGA Cannot say that I truly know the complete *original* tales of the ogress / witch / demoness whose name has come to us out of "Russian" myth. I base my thoughts upon a discussion of Baba Yaga as one highly personified aspecting of the Dark Lady death-image. Allowing for some poetic license in the addition of fangs and claws, and inflation of the tales of her hungers (*cannibal* ogress), the archetype would still seem to hold. An ugly female figure / spirit / being who chews up small children and unwary travelers for breakfast and uses their skulls for necklace beads. A very ugly image of Death as an incarnate figure, I would think... Pax ... Kihe --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [8382] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-27-90 To: Brigid Dragonchild Time: 19:55 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE Previous Reply: 8379 SeeAalso: 9064 In a message to Paul Seymour <04-26-90 21:02> Brigid Dragonchild wrote: > Thanks...I wondered where over the rainbow that Oz might > be... > Dragonchild Just follow the yellow brick road South and West. B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [8391] From: Robin Hood Date: 04-28-90 To: All Time: 02:40 Subject: Animal rights and stuff... Something hit me as odd while I was reading the debate over animal experimentation. A question I had heard before came up. "Why stop with protesting the use of animals? Why not protest the abuse of plants?" I think the question was meant to be absurd, but I think it deserves considoration. One of this soceities biggest problems is that we build heirarchies, heirarchies of importance. We put humans on top (in the US that is white males on top, followed by black/minority males, white women, then black/minority females) then I guess comes animals, then plants. Even vegetarians that might refuse to eat red meat, will eat chicken, or fish. There is a definite heirarchy established, a pecking order. The wicca I practice is non-heirarchical. So my ethic system is focussed not on a heirarchy of importance, but rather a web of interdependence (that is when I can break free of my social programming.) I think the ethic to be reached is to live in harmony with the world around you. It is a matter of deep-ecology, of ecofemenism. A matter of equality. But if we are to take our lesson from nature, we must realise that life comes from other life. We must feed on other life, be it animal or vegetable, to survive. There are points in our lives when we must kill to survive, not only as individuals, but also as a species. So I do believe it is our right as a species to survive at the expense of other species. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [8392] From: Robin Hood Date: 04-28-90 To: All Time: 02:41 Subject: Animal rights and stuff cont. The question of importance, is whether our killing is necessary? Are we killing with reverence? Or are we killing thoughtlessly? In the matter of killing for cosmetics, I think we are killing thoughtlessly, and it has been proven possible to create safe products without animal testing. But the cold objective reality of science, sees only the heirarchy, and we kill and maime, cause suffering without need to our brothers and sisters, as all species on this planet are brother and sister to us. I choose to support those cosmetic products that do not use animal testing. And I do not support the killing of animals for their fur. I do not support the meat industry. I do not because there is no justification for the thoughtless slaughter of animals. As for plants, there is no way around it. All nourishemt comes from plants, it is their dance, their life which has ever supported ours. That recognises our place in nature. But I do not support the rape of the land, to bring forth our food. I buy organic or pesticide free produce when I can. I grow my own, or eat what my friends have grown. I feel sad, but yes I believe animal testing in the pursuit of medical knowledge is an ethical choice. But cold science should become more compassionate, and treat these animals with reverence, respect. And that is not always the case. That is when we must stand up for those animals' rights, for they deserve to be honored, not mistreated. As pagani, we must learn to walk very lightly upon our mother. We must seek out ways to coexist without harm. "An it harm none" is the wiccan rede. So mote it be. It is an impossible code that we should do our very best to fulfill. We must ponder the repercussions of our actions. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [8393] From: Robin Hood Date: 04-28-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 02:42 Subject: hunting and stuff... Blackwolf, Hunting for food is a very old tradition. And although we were not evolved to be great hunters, we are able to take advantage of most of the world around us. We have become successful predators. But that is not why the eco-system is out of balance. The natives of this continent were themselves great hunters, very effective. And during the thousands of years they lived here, they did not cause the imbalance that we have caused over the last few hundred years. We did not "remove" the natural predators. We brutally slaughtered them as we slaughter those that remain. And we don't do it to "safeguard our cattle and sheep," we do it to keep the game for ourselves, and because we are afraid of them. These predators pose no danger to us, and little to our herds, which cause greater destruction of the eco-system than our guns ever did. We kill without thought. The imbalance was caused by the senseless destruction of the eco-systems that surrounds us. I think it would be better if we bring back the predators of nature to set the balance right again, than make believe we are somehow the great balancers of nature by taking this duty on ourselves. We should still be able to kill (not "harvest") a few creatures now and then for our pleasure, our bellies' pleasure, and to help keep the grazing population lower. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [8394] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-27-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 17:10 Subject: Re: Everything Previous Reply: 7264 As soon as I get it re-entered and stabilized (i.e. give it a couple weeks) I wouldn't mind doing that. I love to share info. Last night I spent some hours recreating the database, and even though I didn't have a printout and had to search up the info. all over again from various sources, I made significant progress. I hope that by the end of this weekend I should have it back to where it was, and hopefully make some extra progress. And a lot of backups.... Blessed be, Polgara --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: THE CRYSTAL CAVE, "DER MAGICK TREFFPUNKT"(719 391-1092 (1:128/50) Message Number: [9031] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-28-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 11:29 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 1393 SeeAalso: 9032 Great. Well let me know what they say. I have also just recently heard that women with fertility problems should make themselves upside down for as long as possible after trying to get prego. Ha, I can just see my sister trying to stand on her head. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [9032] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-28-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 11:36 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 9031 SeeAalso: 9033 Missouri festival? I know theres a Pagan gathering in Wisconsin, and a Dragon Fest out west, but what's in Missouri? Maybe I can catch up with your shorts if you're going to be passing through Ottawa in July. I'm going to attend a Fahnenweih up there with the Gebirgetraachten Almrausch Verein, a german group. By the way, german folk tradition says infertile couples should hang box elder branches above their bed. And of course, a pagan carryover into christian times says you can roll in the dew naked on Easter morning, or drink from a sacred spring, which is supposed to bring all kinds of womenly powers. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [9033] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-28-90 To: Greg Grubbs Time: 11:54 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 9032 SeeAalso: 9034 Possibly candle buring, etc won't make it into science classes in the future-maybe! There are currently scientific studies saying all phenomena, even things that appear to be random chaos is in fact following a much huger pattern, and that all things react to the unifeid fabric of the universe. Princeton University and McDonald Douglas have been performing joint "esp" experiments where subjects control the outcome of seemingly random events with their mind power, proving to them there is a connection, they must be pretty sure, as McDonald Douglas is investing big money to build the first "esp" fighter plane that works entirely on the pilots mind control. Unfortunately, alot of magic type folk do not realize science is involved in what they do, especially electromagnetism. Science itself has a long way to go. Although magic folk (as a generic term) have been using energy fields for thousands of years, just recently the scientific community announced that it had recognized that around electric appliances there is an electromagnetic field that can even affect living beings and other appliances in a way they had never before realized. It was a rather large article in PC Magazine. It came down to the question about computer-that if a user is inside the field of his/her pc, could the user be in some sort of contact-which again comes back to Princeton University's findings that the answer is yes, though they also concluded this connection existed between "non" electrical appliances also. Also may I add, there was a study in 1989 saying that the largest computer user group was -wiccan and pagan groups! --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [9034] From: Ellen Wilson Date: 04-28-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 12:01 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 9033 SeeAalso: 10105 Truth be told, I attended Highland Highschool "Home of the Royal Tartans", and the band uniform for everyone was lovely blue plaid kilts. I decided it should be a national decree that women deserve equal rights to see men with bare legs. You could always ask the Tartans for a kilt I suppose, or I will browse around in Ottawa when I go in July. Last time I was up in Canada there were kilt wearing guys, and at least one kilt selling shop up on the Cabot Trail. Ah, but that was many a year ago. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: The INFERNO <*>Home of the PAGAN Echo<*> 609-886-6818 (266/72) Message Number: [9038] From: J. Harvey Date: 04-27-90 To: Whoevr Time: 22:37 Subject: govmnt stuf EID:6f65 149bb4ac FEAR AND LOATHING IN AUSTIN from: "Where we're Going" March/April 1990, No. 13 by Steve Jackson Your Tax Dollars At Work ........This product was to have been GURPS CYBERPUNK (an RPG) set for a March release. But on March 1, our office was raided by the U.S. Secret Service, in conjunction with a data-piracy investigation. All current copies of CURPS CYBERPUNK, in both hardcopy and disc form - along with the two office computers the manuscript was on - were taken. The home of the GURPS CYBERPUNK author was also raided, and his own computer taken. Also taken were the data files of playtest comments, and thousands of dollars worth of assorted hardware and software. We have since been told that the GURPS CYBERPUNK manuscript was not the object of the raids. However, we have been unable to secure the return of the manuscript; the only result of our effort has been huge legal bills. The Secret Service at first flatly refused to return anything - then agreed to let us copy files, but when we got to their office, restricted us to one set of out-of-date files - then agreed to make copies for us, but has now said "maybe tomorrow" every day since March 4. "Are you going to sue the Secret Service?" Many people have advised that we sue the government for loss of business, the damage done to our offices in the raid, and so on. But, while the Fourth Amendment theoretically protects against "unreasonable search and seizure," we have been advised that a lawsuit against the Federal Government is very expensive and very time- consuming, with no guarentee of success, no matter how outrageous the offense. We may have to let it go in order to concentrate on survival. "Will GURPS CYBERPUNK ever come out?" Yes. Although the confiscation of the manuscript forced us to rewrite many sections and miss the original deadline, the book will appear in April. The agents who raided our office grumbled loudly in my presence about the "manual for computer crime" that we were publishing, but (aside from holding our hardware and text files) they have taken no further action against the book. While it is the most realistic cyberpunk game ever published - it contains a great deal of real-world background information, including some supplied by genuine, expert "hackers" - there is nothing in GURPS CYBERPUNK that warrants government suppression, and we're going to publish it. Further information: Steve Jackson Games, Box 18957, Austin Texas 78760 - endfile- --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [9039] From: Troyce Wilson Date: 04-27-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 23:26 Subject: Re: TEXAS FESTIVALS Previous Reply: 8368 Thanks. My address is P.O. Box 9654, College Station, TX 77840. As far as resources here, not much. There was a metaphysical bookstore about 8 years ago, but it's long gone. There are some Pagans around, but VERY underground, and we only find out about each other by accident (it was always fun when the store was open and people would run into each other, "Gee, I didn't know you were into this?"). --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [9040] From: Troyce Wilson Date: 04-27-90 To: All Time: 23:33 Subject: TAROT SeeAalso: 9742 A friend of mine wants me to see if anyone has any information on this. She has heard that Robin Wood is doing a Tarot deck. Does anyone know if this is out yet, and if so, is it any good? --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [9041] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-28-90 To: Robin Hood Time: 23:50 Subject: Re: Animal rights and stuff cont. SeeAalso: 9727 EID:7d87 149cbe4c Greetings from Fennas Istarion! I believe that in our early days upon Gaia we made a pact with the spirits of many animals, which we now term "domesticated". This pact was one of mutual respect and aid. We agreed to provide for the shelter, safety and other needs of our friends, who in turn provided for our needs when giving their lives. Somehow we seem to have forgotten our half of the bargain. I am a vegetarian because of dietary reasons, not ethical ones. I think that the hierarchy of meats which you refered to is primarily based upon dietary considerations as well. However, I agree with your assessment of the meat industry. I prefer to term this the animal products industry, as it encompasses a number of other products as well, leather goods being among the most common. I see nothing wrong with the production and use of these products, but I consider the treatment of the animals from which they are derived to be abhorent. But how do you get through the crass, uncaring attitudes of so many around us? BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [9042] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-29-90 To: Robin Hood Time: 14:35 Subject: Re: hunting and stuff... SeeAalso: 9728 EID:c6f4 149d7463 problem with bringing back the preditors to restore the balance ... it won't work - not without abandoning *massive* tracts of the countryside to be reclaimed .... preditors require large areas as hunting grounds and don't necessarily respect the boundaries between their 'preserves' and that that land being used by man - and when a preditors natural tendencies conflict with a ranchers, who wins? it's a sad fact, but there is no place for the preditor (at the level we are speaking) in a society that is as large and complex as ours ... we are far more successful at predation than they and we do not tolerate competition. it is a standard of sociology that when two or more species are forced into competetion for resources, the stronger wins and comes to dominate that environment .... and we are as bound by the laws of evolution as those below us ..... and are far better killers bw " top-of-the-food-chain, to you" (see _Toolmaker Koan_ for a wonderful take-off on this idea ...) --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [9043] From: Paul Harr Date: 04-29-90 To: Kyle Watts Time: 01:06 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 8378 SeeAalso: 9732 EID:4a37 149d08cc Summarize the universe in one word you said. How's this? GODDESS --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [9044] From: Dave Aronson Date: 04-24-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 08:55 Subject: Re: Test Message Previous Reply: 5814 SeeAalso: 9065 EID:448b 149846e3 MSGID: 1:109/120 26344cd1 > B: * Yoohoo/2U2! > B: > B: lowtech whack .... Ouch! --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [9045] From: Paul Hume Date: 04-24-90 To: Randy Time: 09:15 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 8364 SeeAalso: 9725 EID:46d0 149849e9 Randy - 93. ETYMOLOGY = study of words (from etymon, greek for word or truth) ENTYMOLOGY = study of bugs (from greek word I don't remember) Paul --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [9046] From: Marya Date: 04-25-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 00:06 Subject: Dreams Previous Reply: 4888 SeeAalso: 9048 EID:784f 149900da MSGID: 1:109/120 263522fe In my experience folks can astral project into each other's dreams. It's pretty unnerving sometimes, but don't worry. Just try not to do anything you'd regret later. Good luck! New to Wiccan Echo-Marya --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [9047] From: Marya Date: 04-25-90 To: Tiffany Hall-Graham Time: 00:09 Subject: Craft Children Previous Reply: 1327 EID:784f 14990133 MSGID: 1:109/120 2635240c I grew up with a friend who was the daughter of a Wiccan HPS. She had a tough time with taunts, but her real friends stood by her. I did, for one. We just knew the other kids didn't know any better. I didn't grow up in the Craft, but her mom sure gave me enough info that I knew what I wanted to be when I was free to choose. Just give it your best shot and try not to worry too much. I know that's tough, but there are a lot of us pulling for you. Good luck! -Marya --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [9048] From: Marya Date: 04-25-90 To: All Time: 00:14 Subject: Dreams Previous Reply: 9046 EID:784f 149901c8 MSGID: 1:109/120 263526a9 Got a weird dream/vision I'd like to run by y'all. In the vision I saw a heavy (oak?) door with a grid of 3" squares formed by 1" wide lines. Some vague figures were overlaid on the grid, and I think one of them was a world map (globe?). The grid & figures were carved so that they were in raised work on the door. In front of the door were two men. One was older, white hair and beard, glasses, and some sort of black coat (Tudor style). The other man was younger, black-haired, tall, and thin, in (I think) Elizabethan garb, a sharp dresser, and gave me the creeps. The door was set in a light colored wall that had had a lot of dark woodwork. It was also near a set of stairs. In fact, I was standing on the stairs looking down at the men who looked very knowingly at me. I don't know anyone who looks like these guys. I also had a feeling the room was in a part of the building that was somehow apart from the rest. I felt as though I was in another space/time. I'm not sure what is behind the door, but the door is a very compelling image. Has anyone else seen anything similar? I feel compelled to puzzle out this vision for some odd reason...Help? -Marya --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [9049] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-25-90 To: Marya Time: 00:43 Subject: Re: Dreams Previous Reply: 4914 SeeAalso: 9052 EID:784f 14990577 MSGID: 1:109/120 26352b8c Although I can't do much in the way of the specifics of this dreams o' yours, I do know that doors are generally symbolic of portals to new, unexplored areas of the subconcious. I would suggest trying to clearly visualize this scene again in one of your meditations, and when the picture is absolutely clear in your mind, open the door and see what lies behind. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [9050] From: Robin Culain Date: 04-25-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 20:57 Subject: Re: Blood Sacrifice, Research Benefits and Wiccan Ethics 1 of 2 Previous Reply: 6462 SeeAalso: 9063 EID:f7a4 1499a731 MSGID: 1:109/120 26364c09 Always glad to satisfy curiosity. But not for chrissake, OK? ... The dictionary is always a good starting place in a semantic storm. I see "sacrifice" listed as: "an act of offering to deity something precious, esp. the killing of a victim on an altar." Also listed is a destruction or surrender of something for something else." ... Now I don't claim the dictionary as some sort of holy book, but you get the idea that sacrifice has something to do with the Gods, something to do with giving stuff up for something else, and something to do with victims and sacrificers, right? ... The simplest sacrifice is the one alluded to in the dictionary. You make an altar, kill a victim on it and get "something else". In its simplest form, that's what I don't believe in. ... I don't believe in it, not because it doesn't work, but because it does -- in more ways than are immediately apparent. Sacrifice in the simple sense I've alluded to is, in my opinion, ultimately corrosive to the sacrificer. I place in evidence (nope, no horror stories here) the memories of the faces of all the bad people you've known, just after they've ripped something or someone off. They think they're happy. Do you think they're happy? I've considered it carefully, and think not. ... So what's that got to do with hunting? Not much, in my book. We're animals, we're biological. We eat by killing, other things would eat by killing us if they could. The way I see it, you have to look Death in the eye ... preferably sooner rather than later. Got nothing to do with sacrifice ... to the extent that one hunts spiritually (again in the realms of spirit I hang out in) one joins with the prey. Somedays the bear eats you ... probably not the day you go hunting, but hunting helps remind you of it. Nope, better not to make a habit of it, but it is a good thing to do sometimes. Too many supermarket meals makes you forget you have teeth for a reason. ... So hunting is clean in my book, although it can be made dirty easily enough by a bad attitude. Nothing can make sacrifice clean in my book. Waxing sanctimonious just adds ugliness to the essential blight of the false superiority that lets the sacrificer treat the victim as a thing, placing herself above it and inhaling the energy released in the return to entropy. I don't believe in sacrifice. I believe in paying your own way. ... I also think that people who believe in sacrifice often start off talking pretty, but end up hunting up victims. Underneath all the pretty talk lurks the desire to wrest power from the unwilling. In short, I believe sacrifice is sadistic. ... Which brings me to the main point, which keeps getting swept under the rug. We were talking about vivisection as an effective blood sacrifice. The apologists keep shifting the conversation to clean death. I'm not talking clean death, although I find that repulsive enough -- I'm talking painful slow torture. Who said it was necessary to know everything, and who said it was OK to torture to find out? Not my religion. ... Maybe this torturing for knowledge is necessary. I, at least, can't hear arguments to that effect from folks who can't even see that that is what is happening. The single simple point I've tried to make is that vivisection is an effective blood sacrifice cult. There you have it. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [9051] From: Nightwind Date: 04-26-90 To: Marya Time: 07:52 Subject: Welcome! EID:da34 149a3e81 I saw in your message that you're new to the echo. Blessings and welcome to you! If you participate actively, or just lurk and listen, I hope you find the sharing here as rewarding as I do. Blessed be! Nightwind --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [9052] From: Marya Date: 04-26-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 12:59 Subject: Re: Dreams Previous Reply: 9049 SeeAalso: 9056 EID:f7a4 149a676f MSGID: 1:109/120 26372a75 I tried to check out the door via meditation. Wacko! When I did so, I found myself trying to keep the door shut.I had the feeling there was a "thing man was not meant to know" behind it. Also, I was struggling vs. someone else who wanted to open the door. A real will vs. will sort of thing. I also had the feeling of a lot of power behind the door.I'm sure now that I first saw that door in another life, but I'm also pretty sure I never went through it then.I'm also sure I wasn't struggling vs. myself to keep the door closed. Weird, huh? Certainly not what I expected...Any ideas? -Marya --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [9053] From: Marya Date: 04-26-90 To: Nightwind Time: 13:06 Subject: Re: Welcome! EID:f7a4 149a68ce MSGID: 1:109/120 26372acf Thanks! This is a really neat place! I'm just happy to be here... -Marya --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [9054] From: Robin Culain Date: 04-27-90 To: Aethelred Carlile Time: 21:54 Subject: Reverence for Life EID:ddbe 149baec7 You know, I think we get into trouble when we have reverence for life alone. Before you know it you're talking about appreciating the sacrifice of the steer. ... Sex and Death were invented together. Amoebas and other nonsexed creatures don't really die ... neither do they appear to experience polarity. But once Mother introduced the polarity of gender and successive generations, Death became biologically imperative. ... Death is a part of our life, not a violation of it. It is a condition for our being here ... without it there would never be room for new babies, puppies and harp seals. Or sharks. ... So ... do we have reverence for Death? ... What I think we need is a balance. Reverence for life leads to sacrificial mythologies, so-called Bambi Wicca (the film itself was Deathy enough) and unbalanced "positive only" paths. Reverence for death leads to sacrificial mythologies, satanic posturing and unbalanced "negative only" paths. Reverence for neither leads to a lukewarm sterility of spirit that may be worse than either extreme. ... I suggest reverence for both. No apologies for Death. No apologies for Life. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [9055] From: Robin Culain Date: 04-27-90 To: Randy Alexander Time: 22:04 Subject: Re: To those in the Craft with children... Previous Reply: 7261 EID:7207 149bb09a The Journal I edit (.K.A.M., A Journal of Traditional Wicca) runs a regular "Children's Corner" column on Wiccan parenting issues, including songs, book reviews, discussions of issues and general commiseration. Perhaps you might be interested in enjoying, or better, contributing? ... Be glad to send a sample issue to anybody with kids ... suggest you or Tiffany netmail me a P.O. box if interested. I'm about to go out of the country for a month or so, so have patience. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [9056] From: Steven Craig Date: 04-28-90 To: Marya Time: 17:13 Subject: Re: Dreams Previous Reply: 9052 SeeAalso: 9743 EID:f7a4 149c89ad MSGID: 1:109/120 263a0a95 Hmm, psychology would tell us that the door is symbolic of some repressed memory which has partially surfaced; your subconcious wants to tell you something, but the ego interposes "in your best interest", insisting that what lies behind the door is something you don't really want to see. There are two paths which can be taken here: one can leave the door closed, which may be the most prudent solution. However, whatever lies behind it will still be repressed, and most likely need to be dealt with at a later date. On the other hand, you could strap on your psychic uzi, kick in the door, and see what lies behind, for better or for worse. I personally am prone to go with this alternative in such situations, although it sometimes leads to some indescribably weird regions of the subconcious. Like Pandora and the Curious Cat, I have discovered that staring eternity in the face can be rather unsettling if you're not ready for it. Anyway, if your instincts tell you to leave this door alone, it may be best to set it aside for the time. Eventually, it will probably have to be dealt with, but perhaps your ego is telling you that you presently don't have the tools or wisdom to go forward. In other words, don't open it, but don't put it completely aside. -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [9063] From: Paul Seymour Date: 04-29-90 To: Robin Culain Time: 10:44 Subject: Re: Blood Sacrifice, Research Benefits and Wiccan Ethics 1 of 2 Previous Reply: 9050 SeeAalso: 9726 In a message to Kacey Carlson <04-25-90 20:57> Robin Culain wrote: > ...................................... Nothing can make > sacrifice clean in my book. Waxing sanctimonious just adds > ugliness to the essential blight of the false superiority > that lets the sacrificer treat the victim as a thing, > placing herself above it and inhaling the energy released > in the return to entropy. I don't believe in sacrifice. I > believe in paying your own way. One thing I have found to be useful is blood sacrifice, my own! I have used this as an act of empowerment to seal a magical working by donating blood at the local blood-bank. It seems to work well, but I also realize that this is a "twist" to the original intent of your discourse (which I agree with fully!) B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [9064] From: Brigid Dragonchild Date: 04-28-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 20:48 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE Previous Reply: 8382 SeeAalso: 9739 Actually I've thought about that particular yellow brick road several times... Dragonchild --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [9065] From: Blackwolf Date: 04-29-90 To: Dave Aronson Time: 18:04 Subject: Re: Test Message Previous Reply: 9044 SeeAalso: 10089 EID:c6f4 149d9090 * Lowtech Whack * * Ouch! it was above the knees so it counts ..... though some of us still play by the 100% target conventions amongst ourselves bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [9066] (PRIVATE) From: Tiffany Hall-graham Date: 04-29-90 To: Lady Polgara Time: 22:32 Subject: Addresses EID:b7b2 149db410 I'd love any "recipes" that you can come up with. If you can get recipes to me by the second week of May, or so, then the address would be: 450 South Valencia #J1, Mesa, AZ 85202. If you think it'll take a while to get everything together, then my address will be: (My name) c/o Pvt. Erik Graham, A. Co. 6/502 Inf, APO NY 09742. Thanks so much, I appreciate it. Do you need any help with gathering addresses for newletters/magickal supply shops? I'm asking because the Llewellyn New Times is just full of adverts...I was thinking of making a list and U/L as a file to my board, but it looks like you're doing pretty much the same thing. (Besides, you probably know how to U/L something that's been typed out on a word processor; I haven't figured it out yet!) This is a private post, so I thought it would be safe to post my address...now instead of every user from here to there seeing my address, it'll just be every sysop. Bright blessings, Tiffany --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [9725] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-29-90 To: Jonathan Hutchins Time: 11:31 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 9045 SeeAalso: 10107 > thty'd fit the bill then. Wull, not necessarily. It really depends on whether or not you're counting the "lesser" beings other than actual deities. Valkyries aren't goddesses I don't think. If I remember correctly, they're kinda like demi-gods, but spirits of brave departed earth maidens who have been chosen by Freya to help her. So, yes, they count in that they select the living, but they don't if you're only counting goddesses. -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [9726] From: Kacey Carlson Date: 04-29-90 To: Robin Culain Time: 12:06 Subject: Re: Blood Sacrifice, Research Benefits and Wiccan Ethics 1 of 2 Previous Reply: 9063 SeeAalso: 10103 I have to disagree with you that hunting has "nothing to do with sacrifice" and by extension, since your definition of sacrifice necessitates an involved deity, that it has nothing to do with gods or goddesses. However, this isn't a point either of us could be proven right or wrong on. We've obviously had entirely different experiences with hunting and the related deities (which, since you're into research, you may want to look into; they're there.) > book, but you get the idea that sacrifice has something to > do with the Gods, something to do with giving stuff up for > something else, and something to do with victims and > sacrificers, right? Right. So how is scientific "vivisection" (which, by the way, in my naivete I prefer to think is pretty rare in the research world -- any actual researchers want to back me up on this?) a sacrifice? While I agree in a sense that any concept which is given power by numbers of people (i.e. money, knowlege, fame, etc.) becomes a "god" in a VERY loose sort of way, I really don't think that the behavior of scientists who "sacrifice" animals' lives to the "god" of scientific knowlege is any different from "actors" who "sacrifice" energy and time and bits of their personalities (and even occasional blood or other body fluids) to the "god" of fame, or lawyers who "sacrifice" the blood of convicted murderers to the "god" of justice or students who "sacrifice" sleep, nutrition, time and brain cells to the "god" of "learning". It seems to me that you could pretty much fill in the blank here, and that's called an "ad hoc" argument, if I remember my logic lessons. > So hunting is clean in my book, although it can be made > dirty easily enough by a bad attitude. Nothing can make > sacrifice clean in my book. Waxing sanctimonious just adds > ugliness to the essential blight of the false superiority > that lets the sacrificer treat the victim as a thing, > placing herself above it and inhaling the energy released > in the return to entropy. I don't believe in sacrifice. I > believe in paying your own way. Oh gosh. Here we have what I can only term a difference in reality. Yours is very different from mine, and no amount of arguing will change that. You go ahead and differentiate between hunting and sacrifice, and I'll just go ahead and disagree with you. I don't find a reverence for sacrifice and a true belief in its worth "sanctimonious" in the least, and you're missing a lot of valuable information by dismissing it thus. Read Artemis Lupa's message again. I think you'll find that she believes what she says and has thought about it for a long time. That's not sanctimonious in my book. > semantic storm. I see "sacrifice" listed as: "an act of > offering to deity something precious, esp. the killing of a > victim on an altar." Also listed is a destruction or > surrender of something for something else." How is it that hunting doesn't qualify as "a destruction or surrender of something for something else?" You do destroy an animal when you hunt, and I assume you do it for _food_, not just for grins. People sacrifice every single day of their lives, if you want to use this definition. It's a necessary part of making choices: "I'd love to go for ice cream, but I have to study for this test"; "I'd love to call in sick to work and fly a kite today, but I need the money to pay my rent". One could not function without sacrifice. You do it every day. I do it. As to offering of something precious to a deity, if you're going to enlarge your deities to include such things as scientific advancement, then just about any other concept, noble or not, will qualify also. "the good of my family", "a place to live", "protein for my body" - all require a sacrifice; one even requires a BLOOD sacrifice. Whoops - guess we've landed on ad hoc again. Clearly, a reality difference here. No judgment in that statement; some of my best friends have realities entirely different from my own. All a are relatively valid. I choose mine. -k- --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [9727] From: Robin Hood Date: 04-29-90 To: Amergin O'Kai Time: 13:54 Subject: Re: Animal rights and stuff cont. Previous Reply: 9041 SeeAalso: 9733 It is not oly the treatment of these animals which is abhorrant, but the damage we cause the earth by the quantities we raise and eat. Our public lands, as well as private are being overgrazed, over half of our agricultural production, and the water used to raise those plants, are fed to these creatures as well. There is a myth that there is not enought food to go around on this world, and nothing is further from the truth, we just mismanage what we have. On top of these concerns, is the waste produced by the animals we raise. Cattle put out tons of methane, and it has been estimated that the polution from cattle exceeds that of cars in the US. Methane is damaging to our atmosphere and is a contributor to Global Warming. We should also take into considoration, third world destruction of rainforest for raising cattle. In order to keep up with our government subsidized meat industry, these people must mass produce, and use destructive methods to raise cattle. I think there are serious ethical and political reasons to choose a meatless diet, or at least a diet exclusive of destructive meats. In any case people should considor eating a great deal less meat, say closer to maybe a pound a week. That should be enough to keep their habit going. >---Robin---> --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [9728] From: Robin Hood Date: 04-29-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 14:04 Subject: Re: hunting and stuff... Previous Reply: 9042 Blackwolf, When the ranchers practices are destructive to the environment, I say, let the natural predators win. Lets cut back on the amount of cattle we raise, Say by about 90%. The raising of cattle is destructive to our environment, and Earth should come first. To raise animals for food is to cause great harm to the earth. In moderation that harm would be lessened, perhaps even balanced. It is a sad fact, that in the manner in which we live today, there is no place for nature in soceity. This has got to stop. It is not a justification for global murder. Our divorce from nature, has created a great imbalance, we must seek again to live in harmony with the earth, or destroy it. I say live in harmony. We must stop being so humancentered in our thinking. We must seek a more egalitarian existence. An existence where "harm none" the wiccan ethic extends to all, not just humans. The attitude that what we do in destruction of the earth is ok, because we can, is violent to the earth, and unacceptable. >---Robin---> --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [9729] From: The Magician Date: 04-28-90 To: Troyce Wilson Time: 22:19 Subject: Re: TAROT SeeAalso: 9730 In a message to All <04-27-90 23:33> Troyce Wilson wrote: TW> Note that I said "comprehend" and not "understand"... I understand the > principles and the ideas behind the concept of infinity, yet I can not > comprehend or visualize it. It is indeed not an easy thing to comprehend, but I found personally that in order to fully realize my True Will, I had to first stare infinity straight in the face. It is a moment which is at the same time indescribably beautiful and indescribably terrifying; it is the moment where you see how fundamentally everything is interconnected, and how the world is simultaneously all things. > "Summarize the universe in 1 word or less." Yikes! -Blessed Be, Steve --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [9733] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 04-30-90 To: Robin Hood Time: 21:01 Subject: Re: Animal rights and stuff cont. Previous Reply: 9727 EID:6c7c 149ea82a Greetings from Fennas Istarion! No arguments with your last post. However, I read in the paper the other day that scientists have found that the single largest producer of methane are termites! Seems that all the cellulose in the wood they eat causes them to fart *massive* quantities of methane (in lots of minute increments...). The little buggers are alleged to produce far more methane (in toto) than the worlds cattle population. Hmmm, what next? BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [9738] From: Al Jump Date: 05-01-90 To: All Time: 00:09 Subject: Link test... Testing linkage to the echo... --- D'Bridge 1.30/001257 * Origin: Mystic Mansion BBS/QMX (1:19/5) Message Number: [9739] From: Lance Lyon Date: 04-29-90 To: Brigid Dragonchild Time: 20:02 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE Previous Reply: 9064 SeeAalso: 9740 In a message to Lance Lyon <04-23-90 22:02> Brigid Dragonchild wrote: BD >Is that Oz, Oklahoma, or Oz, Oregon? Ah, no, try Oz as in short for Australia. Lance. --- QuickBBS 2.64 & FD 1. * Origin: Avalon - -= Ars Magica =- (28:200/0) Message Number: [9740] From: Tanis Date: 04-30-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 16:25 Subject: Re: TEST MESSAGE Previous Reply: 9739 I have some local fighters you can take test whacks at...*gryn* -Tanis of the Northwoods -"I hate being in the Barony of the Flame..." --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: Modem Magick /Multi-Line/ (619-447-5010) (202/311) Message Number: [9741] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-30-90 To: Tiffany Hall-graham Time: 10:20 Subject: Recipes and such Thank you for your message. I'll mail out a letter this week (I hope). I realize that time is of the essence. I had wanted to correspond with you for some time, and this will be a good opportunity. Blessed be, Polgara --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [9742] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-30-90 To: Troyce Wilson Time: 10:59 Subject: TAROT Previous Reply: 9040 Yes, Robin Wood did do a Tarot deck for Llewellyn Publications. A few of the cards appear on an old issue of Circle Network News. My understanding is that she finished the deck, but Llewellyn hasn't yet published it. I'd suggest your friend write to Llewellyn and find out why they are taking so long...I thought I read about it in an interview with Robin, where she said that she didn't know what was holding it up. I personally would love to purchase a deck by Robin. I love her pen and ink work...let me know if you hear anything. Maybe I'll write, too. Blessed be, Polgara P.S. Have your friend check out the inside cover of any Llewllyn book for the address. --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [9743] From: Lady Polgara Date: 04-30-90 To: Marya Time: 11:00 Subject: Re: Dreams Previous Reply: 9056 SeeAalso: 10087 Marya, A method I found that really helped me for interpreting dreams (and it should work for visions, too) was described in a book called LIVING YOUR DREAMS. I don't remember the author's name. The idea is that everyone has their own personal symbolism (something key to my magickal path) and analyzing your dreams (or visions) using someone else's symbol set is not the most effective way to interpret them. The method she proposes is like interviewing yourself. First, you might make a list of the symbols or images in your vision. Then, you ask yourself questions like "What does a closed door mean to me?" and you pay attention to the *exact* answer. It sounds silly, but it is really fascinating. You examine everything about the vision this way. Writing it down is most helpful. When done, you start piecing together the meanings to form a cohesive message. I have had abstract and obscure dreams take on a whole new dimension using this method ... had I looked up the symbols in a book, I'd have come up with some really bizarre interpretations, but after the interview method, the dreams made perfect sense for me. Let me know if this helps. Blessed be, Polgara --- RemoteAccess 0.02 * Origin: Alt-Net: A Magick Circle of Friends. (707)442-9376 (1:125/13) Message Number: [9749] From: Michael Thorn Date: 05-01-90 To: Lance Lyon Time: 17:40 Subject: the climate in OZ! EID:d75a 14a18d0d Dear Lance-How are things in OZ? I try to keep up with the latest Shadowplay and Children of Sekhmet. In theStates there is always some controversy brewing, lately it involves Circle Sanctuary. Thou art God/dess --- * Origin: Opera=Amorum, BaphoNet-At-Night =*= (718) 499-9277 (Opus 1:107/666) Message Number: [10087] From: Marya Date: 04-30-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 15:06 Subject: Re: Dreams Previous Reply: 9743 SeeAalso: 10096 EID:784f 149e78d1 MSGID: 1:109/120 263c8d43 On with the flack jacket and the uzi. Once more into the breach, dear friends! No guts, no glory, no info! Thanks and wish me luck! -Marya --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [10088] From: Paul Seymour Date: 05-01-90 To: Al Jump Time: 06:50 Subject: Re: Link test... In a message to All <05-01-90 00:09> Al Jump wrote: > Testing linkage to the echo... New Mexico and the moderator read you fine! B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [10089] From: Tsofeh Mashkif Date: 04-30-90 To: Brigid Dragonchild Time: 18:49 Subject: Re: Test Message Previous Reply: 9065 EID:bc38 149e9620 MSGID: 1:104/11.3 4f12d272 >BD: I wondered where over the rainbow that Oz might be... Not over; "down under" ;-) --- ZMailQ 1.10 @1:104/11.3 * Origin: Tsofeh Mashkif (1:104/11.3) Message Number: [10090] From: Joseph Teller Date: 05-01-90 To: All Time: 16:06 Subject: Files, info etc EID:1f70 14a180c0 MSGID: 1:101/192 263ded97 Just to let sysops and users out here know, I'm still interested in trading and offering pagan-oriented files thru us post-awful exchanges, on IBM MSDOS 5.25 and 3.5 disks (standard 360k and 720k) ASCII. Please if you have files to trade, send me what you have and I'll gladly send what I have on hand (we're talking A LOT of K here) to match it, without cost to either except postage. If you are interested in files but have no files to trade, then please send postage with some blank disks and I'll gladly do so and return them to you (please include a few extra disks - if we don't fill them all the extras will be retained to be used to keep this program operatonal and to help folks who can't afford either method locally). Also, if you're able to call, then please drop by Wonderland BBS 508-663-6220 in Billerica MA and get involved in the WWIV net discussions ongoing or download the files you want (the master file list is also available online). THanks for all your help folks, I'm sorry I really can't participate here too often, but finances remain devistatingly tight here at Wonderland as the Masschusetts Economy continues to decline (Next city over, lowell, is at a 8.3 reported unemployment, 15.5 actual unemployment rate). Joe --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: NPI I (617) 593-0081 Lynn, MA 01904 (1:101/192.0) Message Number: [10095] From: SysOp 114/29 Date: 05-02-90 To: All Time: 00:57 Subject: WELCOME EID:b7b2 14a20722 to the Shire Scribe BBS 374/7 (407) 633-1026...we are now feeding them this echo.... --- * Origin: (Opus 1:114/29) Message Number: [10096] From: Amergin O'Kai Date: 05-02-90 To: Marya Time: 06:40 Subject: Re: Dreams Previous Reply: 10087 EID:7d87 14a23519 M>On with the flack jacket and the uzi. And get that #%&-'%"#!!! HELMET on soldier!!!! BB! A-OK --- Opus-CBCS 1.11 * Origin: Dragonfriend's Place (1:104/11.0) Message Number: [10103] From: Robin Culain Date: 04-30-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 20:39 Subject: Re: Blood Sacrifice, Research Benefits and Wiccan Ethics 1 of 2 Previous Reply: 9726 SeeAalso: 10108 EID:8559 149ea4fc Yes, using your own blood places a whole new meaning on "paying your own way" . --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [10104] From: Robin Culain Date: 04-30-90 To: Robin Hood Time: 20:48 Subject: Re: Animal rights and stuff... EID:566b 149ea612 Seems to me that the attitude with which we kill -- or maim, or torture, or for that matter love or caress is primarily of importance to ourselves and our own inner growth or atrophy. ... On the other hand, the nature of the act itself -- clean death, no death, slow torture, loving touch -- is primarily of importance to the person affected. ... Wouldn't do to get the two mixed up, would it? Some poor monkey with its nerves cut could care less if we do it reverently. I don't mean to belittle our spiritual growth -- it's very important, but mostly to us. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [10105] From: Robin Culain Date: 04-30-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 20:52 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 9034 SeeAalso: 10106 EID:8559 149ea697 Well, if you've ever known women with fertility problems -- and it is going around nowdays -- most will darned well tell you it *feels* like being turned upside down for hours on end. ... More seriously, and from some direct acquaintence, I'd like to pass on the observation that infertility medicine is one of those areas where the quality of the MD makes a big difference. This is complicated by the fact that doctors in this field tend to have monstrous egos and can't admit what they don't know. ... So it pays to dump a bad doc early and get a good one. ... There are more folktales and magics for infertility than almost anything I can think of. Just look at the fairy tales ... there was once a lovely queen who had everything she wanted but a child... ... It can be really hard on a sufferer to have forty "cures" thrust in their face, from thinking positive to elderberry branches. I assume it's someone you know, and not you yourself. A kind hand and suspended judgment may be worth fifteen folk cures. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Zonzr - The Alien BBS Fairfax, Va (1:109/114.0) Message Number: [10106] From: Simon Waters Date: 05-01-90 To: Ellen Wilson Time: 17:38 Subject: Re: FERTILITY Previous Reply: 10105 EID:4f8e 14a18ccd MSGID: 1:109/120 263e024a > EW: Also may I add, there was a study in 1989 saying that the largest > EW: computer user group was -wiccan and pagan groups! details: check "pc computing", march '89, p 42, bottom half, article titled "glenda, the good witch of the north: portrait of a power user". --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [10107] From: Simon Waters Date: 05-01-90 To: Kacey Carlson Time: 17:42 Subject: Re: Death Previous Reply: 9725 EID:6bde 14a18d42 MSGID: 1:109/120 263e02e5 > KC: Valkyries > KC: aren't goddesses I don't think. If I remember correctly, they're > KC: kinda like demi-gods, but spirits of brave departed earth maidens > KC: who have been chosen by Freya to help her. So, yes, they count > KC: in that they select the living, but they don't if you're only > KC: counting goddesses. methinks they're daughters of odin, tho half mortal... tho i could be wrong! --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: TIDMADT Enterprises 703-370-7054 USR-DS PCP=DCWAS (1:109/120.0) Message Number: [10108] From: Paul Seymour Date: 05-02-90 To: Robin Culain Time: 06:46 Subject: Re: Blood Sacrifice, Research Benefits and Wiccan Ethics 1 of 2 Previous Reply: 10103 SeeAalso: 10303 In a message to Paul Seymour <04-30-90 20:39> Robin Culain wrote: > Yes, using your own blood places a whole new meaning on > "paying your own way" . Are you aware of anyone else using such to bind a spell? B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [10109] From: Michael Barnett Date: 05-01-90 To: Paul Hume Time: 22:26 Subject: Word Origins SeeAalso: 10304 EID:c0b2 14a1b343 > ETYMOLOGY = study of words (from etymon, greek for word > or truth) > ENTYMOLOGY = study of bugs (from greek word I don't remember) > Paul I thought that Entymology was the study of tree-like humanoids in the JRR Tolkein "Middle Earth" mythos? ;-] -Michael --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Liberty BBS, Tampa FL (813)933-6247 (1:377/5.0) Message Number: [10110] From: Troyce Wilson Date: 05-01-90 To: The Magician Time: 21:37 Subject: Re: TAROT Previous Reply: 9730 SeeAalso: 10111 Thanks, but I don't think I have access to that echo. If you notice any good answers, I would appreciate if you could pass the word. Thanks. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [10111] From: Troyce Wilson Date: 05-01-90 To: Lady Polgara Time: 21:39 Subject: Re: TAROT Previous Reply: 10110 Thanks for the info. I think we will write. If enough people hound them, then maybe they will finally put it out. Thanks. --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [10112] From: Troyce Wilson Date: 05-01-90 To: All Time: 21:46 Subject: RHUDDLWM GAWR I recently read two books by Ruddlwm Gawr, THE QUEST and THE WAY. He runs something called Y Tylwyth Teg in Georgia. Does anyone else have any information about this person organization? some of the material was quite interesting, but other parts disturbed me. There was a lot of stuff about a coming Apocalypse and natural disastors, etc around the year 2000. Many of the "prophecies" listed in the book have not come true (fortunately). I got the impression that the author was on a bit of an ego trip, purporting to be bringing a tradition from Wales that ultimately derives from Atlantis. I don't want to judge someone too harshly, especially on the basis of two books which may not be properly presenting his beliefs, but I get a definately feeling of power and ego tripping. Does anyone have any information about this organization? --- TBBS v2.1/NM * Origin: *Chrysalis* Multi-User (214) 519-0728 Dallas, Tx (124/4214) Message Number: [10113] From: Blackwolf Date: 05-02-90 To: Joseph Teller Time: 07:29 Subject: Re: Files, info etc SeeAalso: 10114 EID:c6f4 14a23bad how many 3.5's (720's) for the entire set ???? bw --- * Origin: BLACK ICE - Warrior WOC (Opus 1:382/7) Message Number: [10114] From: Paul Seymour Date: 05-02-90 To: Blackwolf Time: 22:00 Subject: Re: Files, info etc Previous Reply: 10113 In a message to Joseph Teller <05-02-90 07:29> Blackwolf wrote: > how many 3.5's (720's) for the entire set ???? > > bw My current collection will take 8 720's, or 4 1.44's, or 5 1.2's, or 15 360's. I'll gladly copy them onto your disks and return them if you will send me disks and a mailer with a return label. If you do not want to trade files, please include return postage also. B*B -Paul- --- QuickBBS v2.61 [EVALUATION] * Origin: The Mountain Oracle "Witches & Pagans & Druids.....Oh My!" (1:301/9.0 Message Number: [10115] From: Silver Claw Date: 05-02-90 To: Steven Craig Time: 16:21 Subject: Re: Creation Myths Previous Reply: 9732 How did you go about staring infinity in the face? (I bet it looks like Barney Rubble. B-) ) --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [10116] From: Aethelred Carlile Date: 05-02-90 To: Lady Polgara Time: 19:36 Subject: Re: Brainwashed kids Previous Reply: 8377 In a message to Aethelred Carlile <04-26-90 10:43> Lady Polgara wrote: > liberated and scholarly. But the problem here is that the > *basis* of the religion is dualistic (IMO) and no matter > how liberated my former church was, the attitude pervaded > whatever they taught. I mean, you are either right or ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > wrong, good or bad, saved or damned. That's it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes, I guess that is pretty standard, 'though I discovered a number of writers, theologians and appologists before I gave up on it, whose Hells had an exit (C.S. Lewis, for one) > It's unfortunate that many people don't realize that > there *is* another way to appreciate divinity. I know that > it was very hard for me to conceive of non-Christians > having morals (when I was a child) because you are taught > that traditional values are Christian values, and they I suppose that happens, however with both of my grandfathers being Masons, the questions of morality and religion were separated: morality was obviously universal and not subject to any one religion. - AEthelred. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [10117] From: Aethelred Carlile Date: 05-02-90 To: Robin Culain Time: 20:04 Subject: Re: Reverence for Life In a message to Aethelred Carlile <04-27-90 21:54> Robin Culain wrote: > So ... do we have reverence for Death? > ... > What I think we need is a balance. Reverence for life > leads to sacrificial mythologies, so-called Bambi Wicca > (the film itself was Deathy enough) and unbalanced > "positive only" paths. Reverence for death leads to > sacrificial mythologies, satanic posturing and unbalanced > "negative only" paths. Reverence for neither leads to a > lukewarm sterility of spirit that may be worse than either > extreme. > ... > I suggest reverence for both. No apologies for Death. No > apologies for Life. Good enough. My initial statement was more than a bit wooley-minded. My notion was sort of that one needs to appreciate the origin of our food, the Earth and the critters that processed it. - AEthelred. --- QuickBBS 2.64 (Eval) * Origin: G.O.D./D.E.S.S. - Not your typical origin line/BBS (1:280/311) Message Number: [10303] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 05-03-90 To: Paul Seymour Time: 09:43 Subject: Re: Blood Sacrifice, Research Benefits and Wiccan Ethics 1 of 2 Previous Reply: 10108 PS> Are you aware of anyone else using such to bind a PS>spell? i have used drops of my own blood (or, when i was feeling slightly less fanatical about it, bits of my hair) as a strong method of "personalizing" charms. the concept of donating blood for the same purposes does seem to cover several bases at once, though. ÿ b/b ========= rorschach ========= --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [10304] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 05-03-90 To: Michael Barnett Time: 09:44 Subject: Re: Word Origins Previous Reply: 10109 MB>I thought that Entymology was the study of tree-like MB>humanoids in the JRR Tolkein "Middle Earth" mythos? ;-] no, you're thining of entenmanology, the study of tasty mass-produced bakery products..... ;-} ========= rorschach ========= --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17) Message Number: [11863] From: Doctor Rorschach Date: 05-07-90 To: All Time: 09:24 Subject: delayed reaction i've recently noted a curious phenomenon and wondered if others have noted it too. in my years as a practicing wiccan (hope to get it right one of these days) i've had a handful of occasions to do "major" workings purely for myself. (an it harm none, i'm gonna get mine.) the results have been satisfactorily rewarding (new job, major annoyance in my life removed, new lover, etc.) but, as i noted when the most recent working worked, seem to be delayed from their source by a constant factor of about six months. (within 30 days of six months - really weird). examples - did work at the 88 winter solstice directed towards a new mundane job, and one fitting the description entirely appeared three days before the summer solstice. performed a nine-day spell towards finding a new lover in late october, and one fitting each characteristic of the eight i described and visualized appeared smiling two weeks ago. has anyone else noticed anything similar, have a potential explanation, or is my feed to goddess central simply roundabout? b/b ========= rorschach ========= --- QuickBBS v2.62 (K) Kallisti * Origin: All began in Love; all returns to Love; Love is the Law. (1:363/17)